The Battle Continues Over "Childish Things"

The recent kerfuffle between Bill Maher and comic fans mourning Stan Lee's passing has illustrated an ugly truth that geeks everywhere continue to face: geekdom is still viewed by some as a sign that society has failed to "grow up."

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Picture courtesy of Pixabay.​
[h=3]It Started with Stan[/h]The death of comics legend Stan Lee prompted an outpouring of grief and comedian Bill Maher took his passing as an opportunity to take a shot at fandom with an essay titled "Adulting":

"...the assumption everyone had back then, both the adults and the kids, was that comics were for kids, and when you grew up you moved on to big-boy books without the pictures. But then twenty years or so ago, something happened – adults decided they didn’t have to give up kid stuff. And so they pretended comic books were actually sophisticated literature."

The response was swift. Maher admitted the lost 40,000 Twitter followers after his post and that he's still followed by paparazzi asking him about "the Stan Lee thing." In response, Maher doubled down in a scathing attack on geekdom everywhere with a video titled, "New Rule: Grow Up":

"...the point of my blog is that I'm not glad Stan Lee is dead I'm sad you're alive...my shot wasn't at Stan Lee it was at, you know, grown men who still dress like kids...I'm sorry but if you are an adult playing with superhero dolls--I'm sorry, I mean collectible action figures!--why not go all the way and drive to work on a big wheel? Grown-ups these days, they cling so desperately to their childhood that when they do attempt to act their age they have a special word for it now, 'adulting'."

If those statements make your blood boil, you're not alone. The comic book industry's condemnation of Maher's comments were swift and wide-reaching. Stan Lee's estate responded directly to Maher:

Mr. Maher: Comic books, like all literature, are storytelling devices. When written well by great creators such as Stan Lee, they make us feel, make us think and teach us lessons that hopefully make us better human beings. One lesson Stan taught so many of us was tolerance and respect, and thanks to that message, we are grateful that we can say you have a right to your opinion that comics are childish and unsophisticated. Many said the same about Dickens, Steinbeck, Melville and even Shakespeare. But to say that Stan merely inspired people to “watch a movie” is in our opinion frankly disgusting. Countless people can attest to how Stan inspired them to read, taught them that the world is not made up of absolutes, that heroes can have flaws and even villains can show humanity within their souls.

The same criticism has been leveled at all things geeky, including role-playing games.
[h=3]Are Role-Playing Games Childish?[/h]Maher's attack on comics is essentially an attack on geekdom itself; the defense from Stan Lee's estate is an argument for the kind of imaginative storytelling that is at the heart of role-playing games.

In a lengthy response to a Quora question if D&D is "too immature and childish," Jake Harris explained:

D&D is a great game that brings people of all kinds together, for those willing to actually try and enjoy it. It's far from childish. Same with other forms of science fiction and fantasy. I strongly believe that these are lowkey pillars of society, which endure when pop culture constantly waxes and wanes with new trends and interpretations of “pop”. Dungeons & Dragons might have 6 Editions (I'm counting 3rd and 3.5 Editions) and Pathfinder, but its playerbase and rules remain largely the same: sit around a table, and travel to far-off lands, doing what no one else in the world is able to. Maybe you think that's childish. Maybe you could even argue that it is. Fine. I submit that maybe our world needs a little childishness. Maybe if we learn to fight less and play more we might actually get somewhere. If we choose to let the children inside of us inspire ourselves and those around us, we might not be stuck with all the problems we have.

Comedian and actor Patton Oswalt doesn't see a difference between pop culture and geek culture:

...I've got news for you—pop culture is nerd culture. The fans of Real Housewives of Hoboken watch, discuss, and absorb their show the same way a geek watched Dark Shadows or obsessed over his eighth-level half-elf ranger character in Dungeons & Dragons. It's the method of consumption, not what's on the plate.

That times have changed is perhaps best exemplified by the Collins online dictionary, which signified a shift away from Maher's perspective:

Once a slur reserved for eggheads and an insult aimed at lovers of computer programming, geek has been deemed the word of the year by the Collins online dictionary. Less brazen than selfie – which topped the Oxford Dictionaries poll last month – geek was chosen as a reminder of how an insult can be transformed into a badge of honour, according to Collins. In September the dictionary changed the main definition of geek from someone preoccupied with computing to "a person who is very knowledgeable and enthusiastic about a specific subject'', adding geekery, geek chic and geekdom to the fold.

Part of geekdom is maintaining the passion for things we enjoyed as children into adulthood, but it does not necessarily mean that we aren't effectively "adulting." Although geekdom seems to have taken over popular culture, comedians like Maher are there to remind us that not everyone is okay with the takeover.

Mike "Talien" Tresca is a freelance game columnist, author, communicator, and a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to http://amazon.com. You can follow him at Patreon.
 

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Michael Tresca

Michael Tresca

Jacob Lewis

Ye Olde GM
Adults dressing up in costumes? Check!
Debates/arguments over rules and plays? Check!
Constructing fantasy teams and turning it into a competitive/social activity? Check!

Yeah, we're all geeks in our own way.
NFL_Superfans.jpg
 


Koloth

First Post
So the millions that Hugh Hefner and others made by providing books with pictures for 'big boys' didn't happen? And let's not overlook that whole fantasy sports industry thing. And a fair number of folks still drive big wheels. They just have 4 tires and sit 3 feet off the ground.

I long ago put Bill Maher on the list of shows I don't need to bother watching. "What he says is unimportant and I do not hear his words." with apologies to Dr McCoy.
 

Li Shenron

Legend
Oh yes... I was too scolded a long time ago by family members of my grandparents' generation (first half of 20th century), about how immature it was to play games into your twenties, when instead in their golden generation they were adult and started working at 12 years old at the latest. And what did they build among other things in our countries? Dictatorships, world wars, concentration camps, the cold war, environmental devastation...

Thanks, I'll stick to my Orcs.
 

lyle.spade

Adventurer
I think I fit into the 'elder statesman' category of gamer, having starting playing DnD probably around 1980, and so I remember - and probably still have social reflexes related to - the stigmatization of gaming in general, and RPGs in particular. It's equal parts refreshing, validating, and surprising that DnD is as close to mainstream as it is today.

And yet...I think this is much ado about nothing. I care nothing about what Bill Maher thinks about anything, and my hobbies are my business. The time and resources they take are in part my family's business, and so if to anyone in this life, it would be to them that I am in some way answerable at all.

Regardless, this is not worth getting worked up over.
 

Rocky777

First Post
Maher, a baby boomer takes another swipe at a younger generation so squeezed the only recreational activity that I can afford is D&D even though I have a great job. That generation gave us student loan dept, skyrocketing housing prices, stagnate wages and a credit society. I don't think this is about Geek culture its about a generation suffering under sever economic stress and really pissed off about it.
 

Celebrim

Legend
"When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up." - C.S. Lewis
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Supporter
Bill Maher has forgotten a man who has had *far* more collective impact on culture than Maher ever will, and who came long before Stan Lee...

I'm talking about Walt Disney.

Disney was not making things for kids. He was making things for *families* - things that kids and parents could engage in together. Adults are supposed to enjoy Disney material, rather than suffer through childishness for sake of kids. And, for the most part, we do. Because mammals don't actually leave their childhoods fully behind, and Maher doesn't understand that.
 

hawkeyefan

Legend
Part of the problem here I think is that Maher conflates “comic books” and “superheroes”. He’s really criticizing one genre but speaks as if he’s criticizing the entire media of comic books. And while he may have at least a little bit of a point about superheroes (and I say that as a fan), dismissing the entire medium is just foolish. There are clearly examples of comic books that rise to the level of literature.

It displays his ignorance on the topic, which therefore makes it easy to ignore. It’s also a shame because as comedian, he’s an artist in a craft that is often dismissed as being unimportant, or less worthwhile when compared to “serious” art. As such, you’d think he would get it....but no.
 

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