Star Wars What I Would Have Done

Zardnaar · Feb 12, 2019

Jester David said:
http://geekxgirls.com/article.php?ID=11006

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Logical story telling with characters we care about helps. Disney Star Wars overall is fairly decent it's mostly just TLJ.

Rebels was really good, Leia is great same with Jynn and Hera. Asoka had also grown on me once she grew up in Rebels.

Ripley in Aliens good new Ghostbusters bad. There's a difference.

doctorbadwolf · Feb 12, 2019

Eltab said:
Diversity for the sake of being diverse shows more 'tripping over own shoelaces' than 'creating better stories' or 'generating higher ticket sales'. Maybe Disney needs to find somebody who can write a compelling story first and then bring in a wide spectrum of actors / actresses to play the parts.
In contrast, the Jedi Council in Phantom Menace was diverse without saying anything about it. Mace Windu was the greatest Jedi combat master, his physical characteristics did not matter to that. The Council was all different aliens, the 'baseline unit' of diversity that would be recognizable in-universe. And it worked.

There is no such thing as diversity for its own sake. Diversity is for the people being represented.

There is no dichotomy between increasing diversity and creating good stories. Period.

trappedslider · Feb 12, 2019

Fans realize something Lucasfilm Ltd. does not, that robust 38-year-old billion-dollar franchises, while seemingly healthy, are in actuality as fragile as two bricks tied together with tissue paper. One mistake, one bad mis-step will cause the entire thing to shatter and fall apart; and Star Wars would be ruined forever.

Fortunately, there is hope. The Star Wars fanbase has resolved to remain ever vigilant against something that could Ruin Star Wars Forever, and call out warning if they see something that could potentially do so.

Some Star Wars conservationists suggest a more extreme approach, that Star Wars should abandon all attempts at re-invention and instead cater exclusively to the old-school fanbase. Though attractive, this approach may prove impractical as a long-term solution.

Ruined Forever remains a serious threat to Star Wars now and in the foreseeable future, though it's possible a proposed initiative requiring all Star Wars fans to purchase an annual "DVD offset" could ensure our fragile brand's existence through the mid-21st century.
Things that have Ruined Star Wars Forever in the past:
George Lucas
Darth Vader is Luke's father!
Leia is Luke's sister!
Ewoks
Those zany comics with the green bunny
The Glove of Darth Vader
Luke goes EVIL!
Kyp Durron
Callista Ming
Waru
Luke having a one-night stand
Destroyers and Dreadnaughts
Re-editing the classics
Greedo shot first
Prequel trilogy
Jar Jar Binks
Midi-chlorians
Del Rey
Races without the Force
Palpatine coming back invalidates the ending of ROTJ!
Oh no! They killed Chewbacca! You bastards!
Oh my god! They killed our favorite Jedi! You bastards!
Oh no! Anakin Solo was too young to die!
Hayden Christensen
The Republic is only 1,000 years old
Star Wars Galaxies
Darths before Bane
The Hayden Christensen ghost in ROTJ
3 million clone troopers
Force lightning, not just for Sith anymore
Torturing joiners
Jacen-In-Name-Only becomes a Sith
Boba Fettishism
Luke appoints the new Emperor
Why couldn't Luke still be alive in 137 ABY?
New Galactic Empire
Lame Darths
The Exile is female
Drew Karpyshyn's adventures in continuity
Death of Mara Jade
Jacen got killed by Jaina!
"When the legend becomes fact, print the fact."
Rick McCallum
Dave Filoni killed my continuity!
Anakin has a Padawan?!
Mindless console action with... Vader's apprentice? WTF?
KOTOR/Dark Times/Rebellion/Legacy crossover
OMFG, why is that brain-damaged Imperial war criminal Daala the new GA Chief of State?!?
Mando addicts with long-term contracts (again)
LotF Sequel Series
NJO Comic Series
Mandalore is what, now?!
ZOMG they canceled KotOR!
ZOMG they canceled Legacy!
The Jedi Civil War was not what it seemed
Dave Filoni: "Han Solo cannot understand Chewie"
George Lucas at Celebration V
Asajj Ventress was from where, now?!
Darth Maul has a brother?!
Wait, two brothers?! Oh, back to one.
Even Piell died before the Great Jedi Purge?!
Darth Vader screames "NOOOOOOO" when he throws the Emperor down the reactor shaft?!
A KotOR MMORPG
~"I’m picking up my blaster, Put it on my side. I’m jumpin’ in my Falcon, Wookiee at my side.
I’m Solo, I’m Han Solo,I’m Han Solo. I’m Han Solo. Solo."~
Darth Maul is alive?
THE EXPANDED UNIVERSE DOESN'T EXIST ANYMORE?
The "pork side"
SHEEV PALPATINE?!
Star Wars Rebels
Phineas and Ferb: Star Wars
No more 20th Century Fox Fanfare
A heart"felt" re-telling of the classics
Lego Star Wars: Droid Tales
Star Wars live-action TV series
Star Wars: Episode VII The Force Awakens
Rogue One
Han Solo film
The Last Jedi
Death of Carrie Fisher

Zardnaar · Feb 12, 2019

trappedslider said:
Fans realize something Lucasfilm Ltd. does not, that robust 38-year-old billion-dollar franchises, while seemingly healthy, are in actuality as fragile as two bricks tied together with tissue paper. One mistake, one bad mis-step will cause the entire thing to shatter and fall apart; and Star Wars would be ruined forever.

Fortunately, there is hope. The Star Wars fanbase has resolved to remain ever vigilant against something that could Ruin Star Wars Forever, and call out warning if they see something that could potentially do so.

Some Star Wars conservationists suggest a more extreme approach, that Star Wars should abandon all attempts at re-invention and instead cater exclusively to the old-school fanbase. Though attractive, this approach may prove impractical as a long-term solution.

Ruined Forever remains a serious threat to Star Wars now and in the foreseeable future, though it's possible a proposed initiative requiring all Star Wars fans to purchase an annual "DVD offset" could ensure our fragile brand's existence through the mid-21st century.
Things that have Ruined Star Wars Forever in the past:
George Lucas
Darth Vader is Luke's father!
Leia is Luke's sister!
Ewoks
Those zany comics with the green bunny
The Glove of Darth Vader
Luke goes EVIL!
Kyp Durron
Callista Ming
Waru
Luke having a one-night stand
Destroyers and Dreadnaughts
Re-editing the classics
Greedo shot first
Prequel trilogy
Jar Jar Binks
Midi-chlorians
Del Rey
Races without the Force
Palpatine coming back invalidates the ending of ROTJ!
Oh no! They killed Chewbacca! You bastards!
Oh my god! They killed our favorite Jedi! You bastards!
Oh no! Anakin Solo was too young to die!
Hayden Christensen
The Republic is only 1,000 years old
Star Wars Galaxies
Darths before Bane
The Hayden Christensen ghost in ROTJ
3 million clone troopers
Force lightning, not just for Sith anymore
Torturing joiners
Jacen-In-Name-Only becomes a Sith
Boba Fettishism
Luke appoints the new Emperor
Why couldn't Luke still be alive in 137 ABY?
New Galactic Empire
Lame Darths
The Exile is female
Drew Karpyshyn's adventures in continuity
Death of Mara Jade
Jacen got killed by Jaina!
"When the legend becomes fact, print the fact."
Rick McCallum
Dave Filoni killed my continuity!
Anakin has a Padawan?!
Mindless console action with... Vader's apprentice? WTF?
KOTOR/Dark Times/Rebellion/Legacy crossover
OMFG, why is that brain-damaged Imperial war criminal Daala the new GA Chief of State?!?
Mando addicts with long-term contracts (again)
LotF Sequel Series
NJO Comic Series
Mandalore is what, now?!
ZOMG they canceled KotOR!
ZOMG they canceled Legacy!
The Jedi Civil War was not what it seemed
Dave Filoni: "Han Solo cannot understand Chewie"
George Lucas at Celebration V
Asajj Ventress was from where, now?!
Darth Maul has a brother?!
Wait, two brothers?! Oh, back to one.
Even Piell died before the Great Jedi Purge?!
Darth Vader screames "NOOOOOOO" when he throws the Emperor down the reactor shaft?!
A KotOR MMORPG
~"I’m picking up my blaster, Put it on my side. I’m jumpin’ in my Falcon, Wookiee at my side.
I’m Solo, I’m Han Solo,I’m Han Solo. I’m Han Solo. Solo."~
Darth Maul is alive?
THE EXPANDED UNIVERSE DOESN'T EXIST ANYMORE?
The "pork side"
SHEEV PALPATINE?!
Star Wars Rebels
Phineas and Ferb: Star Wars
No more 20th Century Fox Fanfare
A heart"felt" re-telling of the classics
Lego Star Wars: Droid Tales
Star Wars live-action TV series
Star Wars: Episode VII The Force Awakens
Rogue One
Han Solo film
The Last Jedi
Death of Carrie Fisher

Waru was very very bad. Daalas problem was the writers. I'll see your Children of The Jedi and raise you a Crystal Star. Both make TLJ look like a masterpiece.

This explains it better and I don't have the skills for a youtube video (nor would anyone care), but this guy doesn't seem like a raving loon.

Ahsoka Vs Rey

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wlBpRnFEcg

carolpegram · Feb 12, 2019

Umbran said:
The Last Jedi grossed more than a *billion* dollars over its production budget. There is no reason to see this as not doing spectacularly. Did it make less than TFA? Yes. But pretty much every sequel makes less than the first in a series. This is not a cause for concern.

Lucasfilm/Disney are probably realizing that yearly releases of movies saturates the market.

There is no such thing as, "diversity for diversity's sake." It is diversity for the sake of those who are not represented, and of the sake of those who need to learn that there are many kinds of people, all valuable. Failing to represent humanity is a failing.

Oh, and by the way, from 2014 to 2018, https://edubirdie.com/plagiarism-checker. So, it is at worst diversity for the sake of selling more tickets.

I welcome diversity in Star Wars movies. But I want to see that the actor/actress is well qualified for such a movie and know how to play well.

Zardnaar · Feb 12, 2019

carolpegram said:
I welcome diversity in Star Wars movies. But I want to see that the actor/actress is well qualified for such a movie and know how to play well.

I thought she is doing better than Hayden as Anakin and perhaps Hamill in ANH.

I don't blame the actor, its the writing IMHO. See the video I posted above.

carolpegram · Feb 12, 2019

I don't understand why everyone is blaming Hayden. For me, he was good in Prequels. I mean not like Ewan McGregor, but still he did a good job in those movies.

Zardnaar · Feb 12, 2019

carolpegram said:
I don't understand why everyone is blaming Hayden. For me, he was good in Prequels. I mean not like Ewan McGregor, but still he did a good job in those movies.

He didn't follow it up that well in other movies. I cut the actors in the sequal some slack because of crap dialogue.

Oscar Isaac was good in Operation Finale on Netflix, Adam Driver I want to see in Black Klansmen, and I like Daisy herself I don't think she is doing that bad with what she has to work with. Even if shes not the greatest she is still doing better than some of the OT actors and prequal ones. The OT characters however.

As I said the video I posted above does a way betetr job explaining it. Basically how annoying Ahsoka became a decent character or even Hans development in 1 movie but Rey and Fin or Kylo have barely progressed and they have had 2 movies. Kylo throws wobblys in TFA then smashes his helmet in TLJ.

Even Vader. Was a mysterious badass in ANH, barely got 10 minutes screen time, Empire Vader was unleashed+ I am your father, Jedi Vader redeemed yay go Anakin.

Apparently they're bringing in a new villain (Kylo is ineffective) and they wasted Snoke and Phasma. Rey had a great introduction in TFA and then yeah.

Jester David · Feb 12, 2019

Zardnaar said:
Logical story telling with characters we care about helps. Disney Star Wars overall is fairly decent it's mostly just TLJ. Rebels was really good, Leia is great same with Jynn and Hera. Asoka had also grown on me once she grew up in Rebels. Ripley in Aliens good new Ghostbusters bad. There's a difference.

You SAY that but look at your points from the first thread:

1a. Not having the new trilogy mapped out at least in broad terms.2a. Letting Rian Johnson do whatever the hell he wanted.1b. Burning Down the Old Expanded Universe.2b. Video Games4b. Diversity (for diversity's sake)5b. World building.

Now, 1a, 2a, 1b, 4b, and 5b are unrelated to TLJ. Because TFA started the terrible world building, had very purposeful diversity, and JJ Abrams was allowed to do whatever he wanted.
And while Abrams mapped out a trilogy very loosely, he never gave it to LucasFilms or shared it with Johnson; it was basically his head-canon.
And video games are unrelated to Disney as Star Wars video games have been terrible for a while, as EA is focused entirely on multiplayer shooters that they can slap loot crates onto. Different company.
As for burning down the EU... that was necessary, as making a sequel set 25 years after Return of the Jedi in the EU would have been impossible as so much had happened. Ridiculous numbers of new characters, several dead characters, unexplained character growth, multiple huge invasions.

But let's not kid ourselves. None of this was a problem until The Last Jedi. Why? Because it was *slightly* divisive. Because Rose was apparently too much diversity. Because Luke wasn't the over powered star and Rey was the new protagonist.

Here's a bunch of IMdb charts showing how men and women rate the various Star Wars films for the prequels. and sequels.

Notice how for all of them women and men seem to rate them roughly the same. Even the bad ones. Men are a little more likely to rate things a 1-star, but only by 1% or so. And then we get to TLJ and the huuuuge disproportionate spike of 1s. Now, why is the reason. Clearly some women didn't like it either, but far more men decided to rate this lower than Caravan of Courage or the Holiday Special.

I'm not saying you have to like TLJ. Although somewhere between 85-75% of the audience really liked it and found it a good movie. But holding it up as "the problem" and complaining about it more than, oh, The Phantom Menace might be unnecessary. However, continuing to rail against TLJ puts you in the same camps as some pretty toxic elements of the fandom.

Zardnaar · Feb 12, 2019

Jester David said:
You SAY that but look at your points from the first thread:

Now, 1a, 2a, 1b, 4b, and 5b are unrelated to TLJ. Because TFA started the terrible world building, had very purposeful diversity, and JJ Abrams was allowed to do whatever he wanted.
And while Abrams mapped out a trilogy very loosely, he never gave it to LucasFilms or shared it with Johnson; it was basically his head-canon.
And video games are unrelated to Disney as Star Wars video games have been terrible for a while, as EA is focused entirely on multiplayer shooters that they can slap loot crates onto. Different company.
As for burning down the EU... that was necessary, as making a sequel set 25 years after Return of the Jedi in the EU would have been impossible as so much had happened. Ridiculous numbers of new characters, several dead characters, unexplained character growth, multiple huge invasions.

But let's not kid ourselves. None of this was a problem until The Last Jedi. Why? Because it was *slightly* divisive. Because Rose was apparently too much diversity. Because Luke wasn't the over powered star and Rey was the new protagonist.

Here's a bunch of IMdb charts showing how men and women rate the various Star Wars films for the prequels. and sequels.

View attachment 104740 View attachment 104741

View attachment 104742 View attachment 104743

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Notice how for all of them women and men seem to rate them roughly the same. Even the bad ones. Men are a little more likely to rate things a 1-star, but only by 1% or so. And then we get to TLJ and the huuuuge disproportionate spike of 1s. Now, why is the reason. Clearly some women didn't like it either, but far more men decided to rate this lower than Caravan of Courage or the Holiday Special.

I'm not saying you have to like TLJ. Although somewhere between 85-75% of the audience really liked it and found it a good movie. But holding it up as "the problem" and complaining about it more than, oh, The Phantom Menace might be unnecessary. However, continuing to rail against TLJ puts you in the same camps as some pretty toxic elements of the fandom.

Did you watch that video I linked?

Rose is unpopular because that whole side story was mostly pointless.

TFA could have done a better job at world building, but overall was a mostly enjoyable movie that mostly made sense. Both here and Finn both came across as idiots because they couldn't follow simple instructions like find the guy with the rose lapel that Maz told them about.

You can do that once or twice (Luke runs off to confront Vader for example) but when all the characters are doing it all of the time it just gets repetitive. Poe gets a whole squadron of bombers killed and leads a mutiny, Rey rushes off to try and redeem Kylo a character she barely knows and just met. ANH-ESB was 3 years in universe, TFA-TLJ was a few hours or days.

When all of the characters (including the villains) are basically being idiots all of the time with very little to fall back on with virtually no character development and so so world building is it any wonder that a lot of people don't care about them. Both Kylo and Rey had really good introductions in TFA and the movie mostly made a bit of sense.

I don't really care if people agree with me or not and we'll have to see how IX turns out but its seems they are doing a 180 for some strange mysterious reason. And yeah some people are toxic towards TLJ, I don't think its the worst SW movie by a long shot, we have 2/3 prequels for that.