Homebrew Deep Dragon
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Thread: Deep Dragon

  1. #1

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    Deep Dragon

    This is my first posting, The Deep Dragon! First appearing in 3rd edition (though I based it's abilities off of its entry in 3.5), the deep dragon is a shapeshifting dragon native to the Underdark. I made a few changes from their standard version, namely changing their alignment from Chaotic Evil to Any Chaotic, leaning towards Chaotic good. This is mostly for balance purposes between the forces of Tiamat and the forces of Bahamut. They are mostly neutral in the whole Bahamut vs. Tiamat debate, which has lead to them being called in as moderators in the (Admittedly rare) times when the two declare a truce.
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  2. #2

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    Welcome to EnWorld @Dragoness Mate ! Thank you for sharing. I have a couple of comments / thoughts for you:

    1) Deep dragons pre-date 3e, they at least existed in 2e: http://www.lomion.de/cmm/dragdeep.php

    2) I like the idea of them explicitly having multiple alignments.

    3) I suggest you go a little outside the WotC box when it comes to dragons. The 5e MM dragons are fairly cookie cutter and that is a disappointment, I suggest you don't make that same mistake. Give them more and more interesting options. Especially with lair actions.

    4) I would go ahead and use the spellcating variant frpm the MM for deep dragons - that only makes for a better dragon IMO

    Keep up the good work!

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by dave2008 View Post
    Welcome to EnWorld @Dragoness Mate ! Thank you for sharing. I have a couple of comments / thoughts for you:

    1) Deep dragons pre-date 3e, they at least existed in 2e: http://www.lomion.de/cmm/dragdeep.php

    2) I like the idea of them explicitly having multiple alignments.

    3) I suggest you go a little outside the WotC box when it comes to dragons. The 5e MM dragons are fairly cookie cutter and that is a disappointment, I suggest you don't make that same mistake. Give them more and more interesting options. Especially with lair actions.

    4) I would go ahead and use the spellcating variant frpm the MM for deep dragons - that only makes for a better dragon IMO

    Keep up the good work!
    Yes, they were originally published in Monstrous Compendium Forgotten Realms Vol II, in 1991.

    As for the OP - They were chaotic evil from the beginning, and if I recall were mentioned someplace as being a chromatic dragon - purple. However, 2e also has a purple dragon. They work with drow, and a favored shape is also drow.

    Iím not a fan of recreating lore when lore already exists. I would not change them from chaotic evil, for example. Obviously youíre welcome to do what youíd like in your campaign, but if youíre going to update an existing creature to 5e, Iíd stick to itís established lore.

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ilbranteloth View Post
    Yes, they were originally published in Monstrous Compendium Forgotten Realms Vol II, in 1991.

    As for the OP - They were chaotic evil from the beginning, and if I recall were mentioned someplace as being a chromatic dragon - purple. However, 2e also has a purple dragon. They work with drow, and a favored shape is also drow.
    Deep dragons were renamed purple dragons in 4e.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ilbranteloth View Post
    Iím not a fan of recreating lore when lore already exists. I would not change them from chaotic evil, for example. Obviously youíre welcome to do what youíd like in your campaign, but if youíre going to update an existing creature to 5e, Iíd stick to itís established lore.
    Oh I disagree a bit here. D&D is a multiverse with many different worlds. it is already established that the creatures don't behave the same on other worlds (including different alignments). So, I think it is perfectly reasonable to add to existing lore, but it does help if some context is given. After all, what is the point of updating the lore if you aren't going to actually add or modify something?

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by dave2008 View Post
    Deep dragons were renamed purple dragons in 4e.

    Oh I disagree a bit here. D&D is a multiverse with many different worlds. it is already established that the creatures don't behave the same on other worlds (including different alignments). So, I think it is perfectly reasonable to add to existing lore, but it does help if some context is given. After all, what is the point of updating the lore if you aren't going to actually add or modify something?
    Thatís what I mean by ďitís ok to alter it for your world,Ē and I donít really mean that you canít/shouldnít post it. But when you make a thread about updating an old monster, I think the expectation is that youíll just be updating it to work with 5e.

    And part of me wonders, if you want a different dragon, then why not just call it something different?

    And the point of updating a monster isnít really to update the lore, generally. Itís so people can use it in 5e. To put it a different way, I donít think an upgrade in game mechanics (a new edition) doesnít need or require an update in lore. Case in point - there was no reason for WotC to change most of the elven characters to eladrin in the Forgotten Realms. Especially since it also altered the lore of eladrin. It made no sense, although they tried to make it make sense.

    If it was for a new setting, then whatever. You like it or you donít. But altering existing lore is usually much more problematic, especially for something that is shared/used by such a large audience.

    Maybe a better example would be midichlorians?

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ilbranteloth View Post
    Thatís what I mean by ďitís ok to alter it for your world,Ē and I donít really mean that you canít/shouldnít post it. But when you make a thread about updating an old monster, I think the expectation is that youíll just be updating it to work with 5e.
    I guess we will just have to agree to disagree on this one. However,...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ilbranteloth View Post
    Maybe a better example would be midichlorians?
    That made me LOL. Though, that is not the best example as that was a change to "official" lore. This is homebrew, it is the place to explore new ideas. Also, the idea that dragons can be different alignments has been supported by previous "official" products.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by dave2008 View Post
    I guess we will just have to agree to disagree on this one. However,...



    That made me LOL. Though, that is not the best example as that was a change to "official" lore. This is homebrew, it is the place to explore new ideas. Also, the idea that dragons can be different alignments has been supported by previous "official" products.
    Ahh, didnít realize this was the homebrew section. Itís not clear on the phone app.

    Thatís different. I thought you were just updating to 5e. Change away!

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