D&D 5E Polymorph is a bad de-buff spell

Retreater · Feb 21, 2019

I'm studying in prep to run a night hag coven and thought I should polymorph the party's fighter (turning him into a toad seems thematically appropriate.)
But all that needs to happen, basically, is a party member swats the frog, does some minor damage to kill it, and the spell is broken.
It seems like Hold Person is a better spell for taking out a combatant, and it's lower level.
With easy ways around spells, saves at the end of every turn to get rid of bad conditions, it seems 5e enemy casters are very lousy.

BluejayJunior · Feb 21, 2019

It's not great as a debuff, but it has it's uses. I would totally polymorph the fighter. But I'd wait until he was close, so one of the hags could pick him up or something. Make it harder for the party to just hit him to break the spell. And even if they do, it has hopefully used up two characters turns (the fighter, hopefully, and whoever hits him).
5e enemy casters are just as powerful as PC casters. For Hold Person, you could cast it at a higher level to hit multiple characters. Even just sitting out one round can swing a battle. Or at least make it feel more threatening to the players.

shadowoflameth · Feb 21, 2019

So turn him into something big but not dangerous like a slow moving ooze or shark (in the desert) something less threatening than the fighter but with some HP.

Tales and Chronicles · Feb 21, 2019

Another ''good'' option, if you want to use hags as devious, plotting creatures instead of BBEG that fights toe-to-toe with the party, is to polymorph a player into a small creatures that doesnt have a swim speed and cant breath under water, then drop him in a pond or fish tank, whatever. Drowning in 5e can kill you but doest deal damage, so it would revert the spell

Blue · Feb 21, 2019

Retreater said:
I'm studying in prep to run a night hag coven and thought I should polymorph the party's fighter (turning him into a toad seems thematically appropriate.)
But all that needs to happen, basically, is a party member swats the frog, does some minor damage to kill it, and the spell is broken.
It seems like Hold Person is a better spell for taking out a combatant, and it's lower level.
With easy ways around spells, saves at the end of every turn to get rid of bad conditions, it seems 5e enemy casters are very lousy.

If the party understands the limitations of polymorph, sure. If you don't have anyone who can cast it, just describe the hag gesturign and sayign a word and the fighter turns into a toad. Does someone possibly waste their action attacking it?

Or you can turn it into something with lots of HPs but little ability to affect the battle, like some sort of big fish.

Also Hold Person allows a save every round, so it often may be on par with the fighter losing an action and then someone else losing an action to break the polymorph. Upcasting it though to catch many is where it's nice.

jgsugden · Feb 21, 2019

If you polymorph someone into a very tiny creature, their allies need to identify that you've done so. They could use their reaction to identify the spell, they might have strong enough perception to see that there was a tiny creature left over, etc... but they do not automatically know what happened to the PC.

Second, creative choices for the form can cause more chaos. So can readily prepared allies. A goblin in a 10th level fight is a joke... until hecswoops up the polymorphed fighter and flees.

Draegn · Feb 21, 2019

With polymorph you replace the fighter's mental attributes with those of a toad. What would a toad do when suddenly confronted by a noisy fight between much larger beings? I think it would hop away for cover, assuming that it was not somehow stuck inside the armor and clothing the fighter was wearing. If so the other players might think poor fighter was disintegrated, which would be a sneaky trick for the hags to do.

iserith · Feb 21, 2019

Draegn said:
With polymorph you replace the fighter's mental attributes with those of a toad. What would a toad do when suddenly confronted by a noisy fight between much larger beings? I think it would hop away for cover, assuming that it was not somehow stuck inside the armor and clothing the fighter was wearing. If so the other players might think poor fighter was disintegrated, which would be a sneaky trick for the hags to do.

The character retains his or her alignment and personality and, since mental ability scores have no meaningful effect on what the player chooses to do unless the player decides they do, the player ultimately decides what the toad will do which could reasonably include impaling itself on the nearest ally's sword so as to end the spell.

If the battle takes place on land, I agree with the idea proposed upthread - a shark. Or really any creature that has a substantial amount of hit points and 0 feet speed on land. A giant sea horse would be really very funny but a killer whale has a lot of hit points to chew through. Plus think of all the "Free Willy" jokes!

Retreater · Feb 21, 2019

Without too many spoilers, this is an encounter in an official published adventure, in a dungeon that isn't easily escaped by heroes or villains (even magically). The default assumption is "try to defeat the heroes" not create an interesting story opportunity.
The coven does have the ability to cast several high powered lightning bolts. That might be the best way to challenge them while staying with the adventure theme.

Yunru · Feb 21, 2019

Clearly you've never paired it with a Bag of Devouring

D&D 5E Polymorph is a bad de-buff spell

Retreater

Legend

BluejayJunior

Explorer

shadowoflameth

Adventurer

Tales and Chronicles

Jewel of the North, formerly know as vincegetorix

Blue

Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal

jgsugden

Legend

Draegn

Explorer

iserith

Magic Wordsmith

Retreater

Legend

Yunru

Banned

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