Building a Fighter 2/Barbarian 8, just need a little advice.

As the title says. I'm coming into an old campaign that's already high level (I posted about this like, 6 months ago or something like that but I didn't realize that campaign was going on hiatus for a new one. It's actually starting back up soon) and I'm making a Half-Orc Fighter/Barbarian. The party is just about going to hit level 9 which I'll go Fighter 3 for Battlemaster because buttons are fun. Barbarian half is Ancestral Guardian. The build is going to sacrifice a bit of damage in exchange for some more utility and tankiness. So with that, I was thinking I might be able to actually make Two Weapon Fighting work. With my level 4 feat I was thinking of going Dual Wielder, because for some reason I thought it had +1 Str or Dex on it, but rereading it, it doesn't. Which is really disappointing because I'd rather just take the ASI for Str. So now instead of writing all this out again, I'm just torn. Is it even worth it to use 2 1d6 weapons, even with +Str to the off hand? I was hoping Rage damage would offset it a little but I don't think it will. I'm not planning on taking Great Weapon Master. I know mathmatically it's amazing but I have a history of rolling poorly and I value accuracy pretty highly. I've pictured my Barbarian using 2 axes this whole time, but 2 dinky little 1d6 hatchets don't do much for me mentally.

Sorry, went a little stream of consciousness there for a minute and rambled

TL;DR

Is TWF worth it with the fighter dip? If not, how far behind does it fall? Can I justify a 2-handed weapon over Dueling and a Shield? Why is weapon balance so bad in this edition?

Ark the Pie King said:

As the title says. I'm coming into an old campaign that's already high level (I posted about this like, 6 months ago or something like that but I didn't realize that campaign was going on hiatus for a new one. It's actually starting back up soon) and I'm making a Half-Orc Fighter/Barbarian. The party is just about going to hit level 9 which I'll go Fighter 3 for Battlemaster because buttons are fun. Barbarian half is Ancestral Guardian. The build is going to sacrifice a bit of damage in exchange for some more utility and tankiness. So with that, I was thinking I might be able to actually make Two Weapon Fighting work. With my level 4 feat I was thinking of going Dual Wielder, because for some reason I thought it had +1 Str or Dex on it, but rereading it, it doesn't. Which is really disappointing because I'd rather just take the ASI for Str. So now instead of writing all this out again, I'm just torn. Is it even worth it to use 2 1d6 weapons, even with +Str to the off hand? I was hoping Rage damage would offset it a little but I don't think it will. I'm not planning on taking Great Weapon Master. I know mathmatically it's amazing but I have a history of rolling poorly and I value accuracy pretty highly. I've pictured my Barbarian using 2 axes this whole time, but 2 dinky little 1d6 hatchets don't do much for me mentally.

Sorry, went a little stream of consciousness there for a minute and rambled

TL;DR

Is TWF worth it with the fighter dip? If not, how far behind does it fall? Can I justify a 2-handed weapon over Dueling and a Shield? Why is weapon balance so bad in this edition?

Click to expand...

TWF Scenario (Without Dual Wielder)
Turn 1: Draw First Weapon + Attack + Bonus Action Rage
Turn 2: Draw 2nd Weapon + attack + bonus action attack
Turn 3: Attack + Bonus Action Attack

Dual Wielder Feat offers no Action Economy Benefit here as your turn 1 will be to bonus action rage. I would avoid Dual Wielder feat at least till you max strength (unless you just want it for flavor with the weapons you carry. It isn't that far behind offensively and does help your AC so it's okay I think). That said, TWF without the feat isn't bad. Let's look at this.

TWF Shortswords
Turn 1: 1d6 (Shortsword) + 4 (Str Bonus) + 2 (Rage Bonus) * 2 = 2d6+12 = 19
Turn 2: 1d6 (Shortsword) + 4 (Str Bonus) + 2 (Rage Bonus) * 3 = 3d6+18 = 28.5
Turn 3: 1d6 (Shortsword) + 4 (Str Bonus) + 2 (Rage Bonus) * 3 = 3d6+18 = 28.5

Greatsword
Turn 1: 2d6 (Greatswrod) + 4 (Str Bonus) + 2 (Rage Bonus) * 2 = 4d6+12 = 26
Turn 2: 2d6 (Greatswrod) + 4 (Str Bonus) + 2 (Rage Bonus) * 2 = 4d6+12 = 26
Turn 3: 2d6 (Greatswrod) + 4 (Str Bonus) + 2 (Rage Bonus) * 2 = 4d6+12 = 26

In short, the TWF has a pretty lousy turn 1 and action surge isn't nearly as effective for him. However, one cool thing that making 3 attacks allows for that making 2 doesn't is that you can attempt to use your first attack to knock the enemy prone, granting you advantage on 2 attacks and your allies advantage on others. As a raging barbarian you even get advantage on the prone attempt. It's a minor sacrifice in personal damage for a pretty major party buff in the right situations and right parties. The GreatSword character sacrifices to much personal damage to attempt that maneuver.

The TWF character doesn't make up the damage difference until round 4 which is when most fights are basically over by. Since Damage now > Damage Later, I rate the Greatsword character higher except for the potential shove prone trick.

TWF Longsword + Duelist
Turn 1: 1d8 (Longword) + 4 (Str Bonus) + 2 (Rage Bonus) + 2 (Dueling Style) * 2 = 2d6+12 = 25
Turn 2: 1d8 (Longword) + 4 (Str Bonus) + 2 (Rage Bonus) + 2 (Dueling Style) * 2 = 3d6+18 = 25
Turn 3: 1d8 (Longword) + 4 (Str Bonus) + 2 (Rage Bonus) + 2 (Dueling Style) * 2 = 3d6+18 = 25

I'd say sword and shield is better than great sword just because you net 1 more AC for 1 damage difference. I think TWF is interesting and not far behind either, except in AC (which shouldn't be a big concern).

I recommend playing your Dual Wielding Barbarian. He will be fun and unique, have a cool trick he can sometimes use in the prone on the first attack of the turn tactic and overall effectiveness even in straight up attack only fights isn't that drastic.

Now if you were really looking to optimize damage I'd suggest you look at feats like polearm mastery and GWF for your barbarian. I don't think your looking for that much optimization though. The Two Handed weapon feats are just so much better for a barbarian than any other feat. So while the basics look okay pre feat comparisons, the greatsword or halberd barbarian does much much better than any of the other weapon styles.

I think the twf idea is neat. Two handaxes are great at dealing damage. I think you are spot on with your analysis about rage bonus making up for lost damage on your second attack. Especially since you can spread the damage around better and you also have to option to just throw your handaxe in round 1. If it is already drawn you can just draw another one. You also have another opportunity to use battlemaster dice. With trip attack you deal extra damage and can get a flying monster back to the ground.
If I migh recommend you something: take a 3rd level of battlemaster before leveling up to 8 in barbarian. Just make it 3/7. That way you already have the battlemaster goodies and you can try out how much you miss another point of str. There is a feat for half orcs in xanathar's guide that adds a bit of damage once in a while if you only have a single odd score. A different idea might be planning a bit ahead and make your wisdom odd. I think especially as a barbarian you should get resilient wis as soon as possible at the higher level. I would aim for fighter 4/Barb 8 by level 12.

FrogReaver said:

Now if you were really looking to optimize damage I'd suggest you look at feats like polearm mastery and GWF for your barbarian. I don't think your looking for that much optimization though. The Two Handed weapon feats are just so much better for a barbarian than any other feat. So while the basics look okay pre feat comparisons, the greatsword or halberd barbarian does much much better than any of the other weapon styles.

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That is good advise. On the other hand using -5 to attack is always a gamble (but usually a good one for you) as is relying on the dm to roll you up a magic polearm someday. With battlemaster you can make up for the -5 by using precision attack but you can chose a different one that is more often useful if you don't rely on GWM.