Li Shenron
Legend
Never done it that way.
D&D General I Do Declare! Do you? (POLL)
DND_Reborn
The High Aldwin
Great responses so far!
I find it very interested since in EVERY game, of ANY type (D&D, StarWars (WEG & D20), Shadowrun, Vampire being most prominent back in the day), the games I've run and played in ALWAYS used the declarations phase! Last weekend was the first time I ever played without it at all.
My reasoning was always, especially for games with quicker rounds like 5E, you need to have an idea of what you are doing before you act. Otherwise, the action is much to fast for people to react in the time alloted. Reaction/responding to a situation is fine, but when timing is so very quick and you are trying to react to it, it seems like declarations always made more sense.
But so far, the results are overwhelmingly against them! Very interesting...
I find it very interested since in EVERY game, of ANY type (D&D, StarWars (WEG & D20), Shadowrun, Vampire being most prominent back in the day), the games I've run and played in ALWAYS used the declarations phase! Last weekend was the first time I ever played without it at all.
My reasoning was always, especially for games with quicker rounds like 5E, you need to have an idea of what you are doing before you act. Otherwise, the action is much to fast for people to react in the time alloted. Reaction/responding to a situation is fine, but when timing is so very quick and you are trying to react to it, it seems like declarations always made more sense.
But so far, the results are overwhelmingly against them! Very interesting...
Man in the Funny Hat
Hero
I can't remember the last time I insisted on declaration. 20 years ago? 30? Certainly not since 3E first came out. Declaration shouldn't be needed or even desired unless the particular initiative system actually REQUIRES it for solid mechanical reasons (and if THAT's the case then I'd question the usefulness of those mechanics). IF players are reasonably familiar with the system's functionality they should NOT require intricate planning or consideration to choose effective actions - unless intricate, complicated, and deeply considered action IS the form of play that the game is INTENTIONALLY aiming for. If players ARE taking what seems to be inordinate amounts of time to choose actions on their turn then prior declaration is NOT going to speed that up IMO. If anything, I'd think it would slow things even more, because then rather than looking at how things stand at the precise moment their turn begins they must contemplate the POTENTIAL actions of everyone on the battlefield at the start of every round and attempt to plan actions that are not just effective but won't actually be made useless or prevented outright because of changes to the situation before their turn can begin. And then you further get players who understandably then want to change their declared actions when those actions ARE rendered ineffective or impossible, making all the time spent in considering declarations a waste.
If declared actions are frequently hampered then players will naturally gravitate to only those actions that more consistently produce results. Combat will become dull and repetitive because experience will show players that only the dull and repetitive choices can be reliable. If players are spending excessive time planning their turn ON their turn then chances are good that it has been demonstrated to them that only careful planning produces desired results, or they are paralyzed by having TOO MANY choices.
If declared actions are frequently hampered then players will naturally gravitate to only those actions that more consistently produce results. Combat will become dull and repetitive because experience will show players that only the dull and repetitive choices can be reliable. If players are spending excessive time planning their turn ON their turn then chances are good that it has been demonstrated to them that only careful planning produces desired results, or they are paralyzed by having TOO MANY choices.
Graylion2018
Explorer
I have been playing since D&D basic with every version of D&D in between as well as WoD, CoD and more games than I can list. The prominent game I remember this from was Vampire the Masquerade. You rolled initiative each round and declared action in order from worst initiative to the best. This gave higher initiative characters the edge as they declared last but act first. Now my thoughts on it are, it sounds like a great idea in discussion. In operation I find it to be an extra unnecessary step.
For D&D I prefer the simplicity of 5e which holds your initiative score on place as opposed to 3.5 with every delay or ready changing it. If I want to add uncertainty I will pregen a d20 initiative list of 100 rolls and have variable initiative for each character each round. Now the fog of war and flow of battle has an edge to it.
A game called Silhouette Core by Dream Pod 9 does initiative each round and if you fumble you loose the round. I find that extreme and am never in favor of players loosing a round based on initiative roll. My other current favorite initiative system is Storypath by Onyx Path Publishing. More on that in the next post.
Best regards
For D&D I prefer the simplicity of 5e which holds your initiative score on place as opposed to 3.5 with every delay or ready changing it. If I want to add uncertainty I will pregen a d20 initiative list of 100 rolls and have variable initiative for each character each round. Now the fog of war and flow of battle has an edge to it.
A game called Silhouette Core by Dream Pod 9 does initiative each round and if you fumble you loose the round. I find that extreme and am never in favor of players loosing a round based on initiative roll. My other current favorite initiative system is Storypath by Onyx Path Publishing. More on that in the next post.
Best regards
There was a time, way back when, that the group I played with did declarations. But, that was back in 1e, and quite frankly, too many times for both PC and NPC that led to nonsensical dud actions.
Most games these days don't have declaration like that as part of their design these days.
Most games these days don't have declaration like that as part of their design these days.
Graylion2018
Explorer
Here is the Storypath system by Onyx Path Publishing which I really enjoy.
INITIATIVE
In action-adventure round-by-round conflicts, the action can get pretty chaotic. Storypath uses an initiative system that’s a mix of traditional and collaborative means to make sure everyone gets their chance in the spotlight.
At the start of the scene, you roll a dice pool of d10s with the skill and attribute your character is using to react to the situation. Each roll generates a turn slot for either a player or storyguide character, with the slots placed in order of which achieved the most successes — traits (and then storyguide’s preference) break the tie if there’s a draw. This is the initiative order.
Focus or Spotlight
The player character who achieved the most successes get the Focus first and acts, then chooses which of his teammates gets the focus next, out of those who have yet to act this round. And so on, with each player picking the next to go after his or her turn is finished.
The storyguide does the same with their characters. This cycle continues every round until no characters or turns remain, at which point it resets and the player character whose turn was last picks the next player to start the next round.
Nobody can take two turns in a single round. Characters can take two simple actions in a single turn, using a mixed action, but they don’t get multiple turns.
Example Initiative Dice Pools
Example SituationExample Dice Pool
Astral BattleCunning + Occult
CombatCunning + Combat Skill
Defusing BombIntellect or Composure + Technology
Social GalaPresence + Culture
Vehicle ChaseCunning + Pilot
System Variant
•D10 + Modifier equal to dice pool
INITIATIVE
In action-adventure round-by-round conflicts, the action can get pretty chaotic. Storypath uses an initiative system that’s a mix of traditional and collaborative means to make sure everyone gets their chance in the spotlight.
At the start of the scene, you roll a dice pool of d10s with the skill and attribute your character is using to react to the situation. Each roll generates a turn slot for either a player or storyguide character, with the slots placed in order of which achieved the most successes — traits (and then storyguide’s preference) break the tie if there’s a draw. This is the initiative order.
Focus or Spotlight
The player character who achieved the most successes get the Focus first and acts, then chooses which of his teammates gets the focus next, out of those who have yet to act this round. And so on, with each player picking the next to go after his or her turn is finished.
The storyguide does the same with their characters. This cycle continues every round until no characters or turns remain, at which point it resets and the player character whose turn was last picks the next player to start the next round.
Nobody can take two turns in a single round. Characters can take two simple actions in a single turn, using a mixed action, but they don’t get multiple turns.
Example Initiative Dice Pools
Example SituationExample Dice Pool
Astral BattleCunning + Occult
CombatCunning + Combat Skill
Defusing BombIntellect or Composure + Technology
Social GalaPresence + Culture
Vehicle ChaseCunning + Pilot
System Variant
•D10 + Modifier equal to dice pool
Greenstone.Walker
Adventurer
I like declaration but my current players hate it. The thought of somehow losing an action is apparantly the most henious thing that can ever happen at the table, at least according to the reaction I got from them when we tried a couple of alternatives.
DND_Reborn
The High Aldwin
Oddly enough, "losing" an action has never played in all my years of gaming with always declaring actions. At worst, character might have had to change targets for an attack or spell if the original target was dead or out of sight, but that's about it.
I don't have any issue with using declarations as it makes sense to me from playing this way for so long. Our biggest reason in trying NOT using it was to see if things sped up, which so far it seems to have done so.
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