How Should Taunting Work?
Captain Panda
Explorer
Your poll is wrong-headed and missing the obvious answer of "taunting should work if, when, and to the extent the DM judges on a case by case basis." A hard system of contested skill checks is just a horrible idea, and has no place in 5th edition. Are you going to be okay with the same being done to the PCs in reverse? Even if so, it doesn't sound like a fun time for anyone involved if you start gaming what should be a fun and dynamic thing to do. It just makes combat feel more like a video game and less organic.
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iserith
Magic Wordsmith
I don't particularly care if I occasionally step on class features. In all likelihood, those classes or subclasses aren't even being played at the time. But, like you, this would always be a case by case call in my game and the player should have no expectation that it will work (or even get a roll) all of the time. The specifics of the situation and the approach to the goal employed by the player will decide.
Istbor
Dances with Gnolls
I don't think taunting is more about being the biggest threat, sometimes.
Most living things aren't driven by logic, so they won't necessarily analyze a situation and understand that the most threatening problem should be dealt with first. That comes with training, experience, and a mean intelligence.
Mostly, you should just need to get your opponent worked up, annoyed, wanting to end you just because it knows your mere presence here is now affecting how they act and feel.
Some less experienced or intelligent creatures, I would have perform a wisdom save, if they are susceptible to taunts at all. More venerable enemies, might get an insight, perhaps even with advantage. That is how I would play it.
Most living things aren't driven by logic, so they won't necessarily analyze a situation and understand that the most threatening problem should be dealt with first. That comes with training, experience, and a mean intelligence.
Mostly, you should just need to get your opponent worked up, annoyed, wanting to end you just because it knows your mere presence here is now affecting how they act and feel.
Some less experienced or intelligent creatures, I would have perform a wisdom save, if they are susceptible to taunts at all. More venerable enemies, might get an insight, perhaps even with advantage. That is how I would play it.
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Satyrn
First Post
Aye.
I'd have the OP roll a Charisma check vs the ettins' passive insight, upping the DC by 2 for the danger of Booming Blade and 2 more for each opportunity attack it would suffer.
Blue
Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal
Sure - shove is a defined mechanic that uses an attack, and can be used to either push or to prone - which is easily reskinned as trip.
But then again, as I said I'm open for things even if there wasn't a class feature - I just make a DM call on what it takes instead of implementing a new subsystem.
WaterRabbit
Explorer
You left off a more obvious option on the poll. I wouldn't allow it all inside of combat. The mechanics proposed don't address any player cost. One way to do that is to require the attack action using CHA (non-proficient) verus passive Insight. The target would then use its next attack versus the taunter with no requirement to move or put itself in danger. Also I wouldn't allow non-intelligent or animal intelligent creatures to taunt at all. I would also impose disadvantage on trying to taunt an intelligent creature that has a different cultural basis.
Otherwise, this just becomes way to prone for abuse. There is no mechanic for it in the game. It should be a role-play reward or even spending Inspiration to get working.
If you don't like the way the DM runs his monsters (which seems to be the thrust here) that is a different discussion.
Otherwise, this just becomes way to prone for abuse. There is no mechanic for it in the game. It should be a role-play reward or even spending Inspiration to get working.
If you don't like the way the DM runs his monsters (which seems to be the thrust here) that is a different discussion.
doctorbadwolf
Heretic of The Seventh Circle
I left it off because it is outside the scope of the question. I’m not interested in any way in the discussion over whether or not it should be allowed at all.
doctorbadwolf
Heretic of The Seventh Circle
This is a totally fair point. I’d also add that doing something like this as an Action, with no additional benefit, doesn’t step on any existing mechanic in the game, that I can think of. Maybe a spell, but skills and spells frequently do the same things, so I don’t see any reason to ever restrict a skill based on what spells do.
Agreed. I prefer players rolling, so I’ll probably go with the skill check vs DC set by the higher of passive insight or wisdom save+10 (since most monsters have crap for insight), or just use the DMG DC guidelines. But saves work well too.
That’s a fair way to do it, though I sometimes require players to roll to know the dangers of a spell if they haven’t seen it before, and might do the same here. I also often let players make insight or investigation checks to figure out a tactical element of the fight, and might use a passive test of the higher of the two to see if a critter that I’m not sure about would understand the danger. Might be too complicated in play, though. I’d have to test it out.
That’s fair. To me, this isn’t actually different from shove or trip (or disarm and mark, from the DMG), so I’d just handle it the same, but with mental skills instead of physical ones.
Hriston
Dungeon Master of Middle-earth
I’d treat it as a social interaction challenge. Since the ettin is almost certainly hostile to the PCs, it being in combat with them, to successfully provoke it at all would require a taunt which touches upon some ideal, bond, or flaw it has. To discover what is going to get under its skin requires knowing how to speak Giant or Orc, and using an improvised action to interact with the ettin enough to make a Wisdom (Insight) check. (I think I’d set the DC at 9 due to the ettin’s low Charisma.) Success on the check would reveal a personal characteristic of the ettin which could then be used to taunt it (on a subsequent turn) by making a DC 20 Charisma (Intimidation) check. If successful, the ettin uses its next action to attack the speaker with advantage.
edit: This is why I voted for the second option.
edit: This is why I voted for the second option.
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