D&D 5E Monoclass DPR Comparison: Eldritch Knight Archer vs Melee Arcane Trickster

Esker

Hero
I see a lot of online discussion of different DPR-oriented builds that implicitly or explicitly accept some conventional wisdom about certain classes or feats being required to be optimized. I've read more than once statements to the effect that top tier DPR is reserved for builds with either Sharpshooter or Great Weapon Master. Also that rogues might start strong, but fall behind other martial classes in damage later unless they multiclass.

As a player with a fondness for the rogue class, and also an instinctively contrarian attitude toward both conventional wisdom and oversimplified calculations, I thought I'd do a numerical comparison of expected DPR between two single class builds, both of which make reasonable build decisions given their concept, but one of which is a pretty conventional DPR build and the other of which is, I think, generally considered to derive much of its value not from DPR but from its other utility.

Build 1: Eldritch Knight Archer

This character will be focused on DPR feats and spells. We'll obviously take the archery fighting style and the usual archer feats: crossbow expert, sharpshooter, and elven accuracy, as well as maxing our DEX, and taking Magic Initiate (Warlock) for Hex. We can have all of these things by level 14. We'll also assume an Owl familiar is available and will consistently take the Help action to give us advantage on our first attack on our turn, and that Haste is used instead of Hex if it would yield higher average DPR.

Build 2: Melee Arcane Trickster

This character will choose between a rapier with booming blade and two shortswords, as dicated by average DPR. They will also have a help-bot familiar, and pick up shadow blade and haste when they can, using whichever is better from a damage perspective. They'll also take elven accuracy and max DEX, which can be achieved by level 8, leaving them two spare ASIs or feats before level 14, which they could use to, for example, grab Tough and Resilient (CON), to compensate for their lower hit die and greater susceptibility to getting targeted than the archer.

Place Your Bets!

So, we've controlled for a bunch of things here: both characters are 1/3 casters with access to the same spell list (find familiar, shield, haste, mirror image, etc.). Both have elven accuracy and a maxed attack stat. They even have mostly the same pool of limited resources in their spell slots (action surge aside). So which one will do more damage over the course of an adventuring day?

It's obvious, right? The Eldritch Knight is considered one of the best single-classed archers in the game (probably rivaled only by the Battlemaster), and the crossbow expert + sharpshooter combo is considered the best archery setup. Throw in elven accuracy and an owl familiar... this character should wipe the floor with a mere rogue.

Well... let's do the math.

Methodology Notes: I'm going to set aside potential damage derived from off-turn attacks, as well as the possibility of the extra movement damage from Booming Blade, since these are situational. The rogue could use Haste and a readied action to get an off-turn sneak attack, but I'm not factoring that in. I'm also not factoring in synergies with other party members. That obviously matters, but is hard to account for. In any case, these other factors are likely to favor the rogue more than the fighter, so keep that in mind if you want.

I'll assume an enemy AC of 18, which should be reasonable at this tier.

Math: Eldritch Knight

At level 14, the EK has four attacks with a hand crossbow, one with advantage, and either a fifth from Haste or an extra 1d6 on each of the first four from Hex. With 20 DEX, +5 proficiency, and archery style, they'll have +12 to hit with a normal attack, or +7 with a sharpshooter power attack.

Against 18 AC, that's a 75% chance to hit with a normal attack with no advantage, and a 50% chance with a power attack. With advantage (and elven accuracy), those numbers go up to 98.4% and 87.5% respectively. On a hit, a normal attack will do 1d6+5, or 8.5 without Hex, and 12 with Hex. A power attack adds 10 to that, for 18.5 without Hex and 22 with Hex. It turns out we're better off always power attacking even when we don't have advantage. Hex and Haste yield almost exactly the same average DPR, so we'll assume Hex since it's a lower level spell slot and we're being purely offense-minded. I'll leave those claims as exercises for the reader, and assume below that we're always power attacking and have Hex up.

Attack 1: 0.875 * 22 = 19.3 eDPR
Attacks 2-4: 0.500 * 22 = 11.0 eDPR each
Total: 52.3 eDPR

Wait, but that doesn't factor in crits. With advantage we have a 14.3% chance to crit (and obviously 5% without) for an additional 7 damage on average per crit. That's 1.0 extra damage on average on the first attack and 0.35 on the next three, so about an extra 2 damage per round on average from crits.

Bottom Line: ~54 eDPR


Caveats: Once per short rest, action surge gives another three attacks without advantage, for an extra 34ish extra damage on average. A downside adjustment is that Hex uses a bonus action each time you select a new target, costing you 11ish damage on those turns. It seems reasonable to call these two things an approximate wash.

Math: Arcane Trickster

This character is either doing a single attack if using shadow blade, or two with a rapier if using Haste (only one of which can use booming blade). They could make an off-hand attack, but that's not a good option if not using Haste since it requires giving up Booming Blade; and even if using Haste is only going to add a little bit of damage.

Shadow Blade at a 2nd level slot and Haste at a 3rd level slot are pretty comparable for this character if they're already getting advantage from their owl (with a roughly 2 point edge for Haste). But let's just go with the 2nd level Shadow Blade.

With a +10 to hit, we have a 65% base chance to hit, going up to 95.7% with advantage.

Weapon Dice: 2d8 (average 9)
Booming Blade Dice: 2d8 (average 9)
Sneak Attack Dice: 7d6 (average 24.5)
Static Damage: +5

Total Per Hit: 47.5 on average

Average Per Round: 0.957 * 47.5 = 45.5

However, we have that 14.2% to crit, and do an extra 42.5 on average if we do crit, so on average we're doing 6 extra damage per round from crits.

Bottom Line: ~51 eDPR (going up to 56 when using a 3rd level spell slot)

Caveats: This character is using a second level spell slot each combat encounter compared to the fighter's 1st level slot. And they clearly lose much more when the owl is unavailable (though if in dim conditions they will still get advantage from shadow blade, and at this level they have versatile trickster as well). Conversely the fighter gains a lot if they can get a full turn source of advantage. Moreover they have less to gain from a weapon with a plus modifier. On the upside they are doing mostly psychic damage.

A Counterintuitive Result

The rogue at level 14 is, with a few caveats, doing nearly identical average damage compared to an optimized archer build much of the time (and in case you're wondering, no, the GWF+GWM+PAM eldritch knight isn't any better, though a battlemaster archer may well be), with only a single feat invested in damage vs the fighter's three. To be clear, this does not mean the rogue is equally good at killing things. Apart from the greater dependence on familiar help, the fact that the rogue's damage is single target, is more tied up in dice instead of static bonuses, and relies more on crits means they will put out more overkill damage as well as having more turns where they significantly underperform their average output. But the non-damage features they get are fantastic: expertise in 4 skills, cunning action (note that they aren't using their bonus action for anything right now, save the initial shadow blade cast), uncanny dodge, evasion, magical ambush, and reliable talent. Indomitable is lovely too, but I'll take the rogue's stack any day.

What About Level 20?

Out of curiosity, what happens if we project all of this up to level 20, when the fighter gets their fourth attack? The rogue gets a few more sneak attack dice and one more booming blade die in the mean time. Adjusting the enemy AC to 20, the rogue actually comes out ahead at this point, even when using only a 2nd level spell slot: about 66 eDPR vs the fighter's 60. Using a 3rd level shadow blade gets the rogue over 71, whereas the fighter using Haste doesn't improve compared to Hex. Now if the fighter has a +3 hand crossbow at this point, that's a whole other story, but still.
 

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Esker

Hero
I realized toward the end of this writeup that I was not using magic initiate correctly: the eldritch knight would only have one use of Hex per day, since it is not on their spell list and so they can't use their own slots for it. They can cast Haste instead for similar damage a couple more times a day, but after those three fights they've got to do something else with their concentration. Are there other spells that would be good archer buffs that I'm forgetting about? This has me even more convinced that the battlemaster is going to do better here as a single classed comparison goes.
 

Gavin O.

First Post
I feel like for an Arcane Trickster, you're better off using Haste instead of Shadow Blade when you get it. If you're hasted, you can ready a Booming Blade to use on another creature's turn and use the additional action from Haste to attack on your turn, which triggers sneak attack twice.
 

Esker

Hero
I feel like for an Arcane Trickster, you're better off using Haste instead of Shadow Blade when you get it. If you're hasted, you can ready a Booming Blade to use on another creature's turn and use the additional action from Haste to attack on your turn, which triggers sneak attack twice.

I did include a note about readying an action to get a second sneak attack (it's a long post though, no worries). However, RAW you can't ready a booming blade while hasted, since readying a spell uses concentration. So at level 14 you give up 2d8 (~9) to gain 7d6 (24.5), netting 15.5 times your chance to hit (0.65 in this example, so roughly 10 eDPR) over using your main and hasted action to attack on your turn. But haste starts out down a few points compared to a 3rd level shadow blade to begin with, so you're really only gaining 7ish damage by spending your reaction that way, and need to leave yourself adjacent to the enemy with no reaction for shield or uncanny dodge to get it. I don't personally make a habit of that when hasted as a rogue, but it's a matter of style I suppose. You do get the +2 AC from haste that you don't get from shadow blade, but you have that if you attack on your turn too.
 

Gavin O.

First Post
I did include a note about readying an action to get a second sneak attack (it's a long post though, no worries). However, RAW you can't ready a booming blade while hasted, since readying a spell uses concentration. So at level 14 you give up 2d8 (~9) to gain 7d6 (24.5), netting 15.5 times your chance to hit (0.65 in this example, so roughly 10 eDPR) over using your main and hasted action to attack on your turn. But haste starts out down a few points compared to a 3rd level shadow blade to begin with, so you're really only gaining 7ish damage by spending your reaction that way, and need to leave yourself adjacent to the enemy with no reaction for shield or uncanny dodge to get it. I don't personally make a habit of that when hasted as a rogue, but it's a matter of style I suppose. You do get the +2 AC from haste that you don't get from shadow blade, but you have that if you attack on your turn too.

Right, I forget that readying a spell breaks your concentration.
 

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
Interesting! How does the AT rogue compare to a Swashbuckler with Magic Initiate (for BB and Find Familiar) and a rapier? (Or thief, I guess, but SB has much better ability to hit and run without reprisal, and is more likely to get the secondary BB damage as a result)
 

Esker

Hero
Interesting! How does the AT rogue compare to a Swashbuckler with Magic Initiate (for BB and Find Familiar) and a rapier? (Or thief, I guess, but SB has much better ability to hit and run without reprisal, and is more likely to get the secondary BB damage as a result)

In other words take the above but remove shadow blade? I was assuming a 2nd level slot, so the extra d8 is worth about 5 average damage there (4.5 * (to-hit + to-crit)). So the rapier-wielding swashbuckler with owlvantage would get about 46 eDPR at level 14.

But using a rapier doesn't really take advantage of fancy footwork, since the arcane trickster can already disengage with their bonus action (granted, if using shadow blade, they can't do that on the turn they cast it). What fancy footwork buys you is the ability to quasi-disengage while also making an offhand attack. If you don't have a source of advantage, that second attack is valuable because it raises the chance of landing your sneak attack by up to 25 percentage points. But if you're assuming familiar help, particularly with elven accuracy, it's worse than a single rapier: shave off ~1 eDPR for having to downgrade your main hand to a shortsword, lose ~9 eDPR because booming blade doesn't allow an offhand attack, then add back (3.5 * to-hit + to-crit) for the offhand attack. On net you're down about 7 damage on average compared to rapier + BB (though you can spread your damage between two targets if you want, which is worth something).
 

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
In other words take the above but remove shadow blade? I was assuming a 2nd level slot, so the extra d8 is worth about 5 average damage there (4.5 * (to-hit + to-crit)). So the rapier-wielding swashbuckler with owlvantage would get about 46 eDPR at level 14.

But using a rapier doesn't really take advantage of fancy footwork, since the arcane trickster can already disengage with their bonus action (granted, if using shadow blade, they can't do that on the turn they cast it). What fancy footwork buys you is the ability to quasi-disengage while also making an offhand attack. If you don't have a source of advantage, that second attack is valuable because it raises the chance of landing your sneak attack by up to 25 percentage points. But if you're assuming familiar help, particularly with elven accuracy, it's worse than a single rapier: shave off ~1 eDPR for having to downgrade your main hand to a shortsword, lose ~9 eDPR because booming blade doesn't allow an offhand attack, then add back (3.5 * to-hit + to-crit) for the offhand attack. On net you're down about 7 damage on average compared to rapier + BB (though you can spread your damage between two targets if you want, which is worth something).

I’d say rapier + BB and familiar is flat better than TWF, even if the damage were exactly equal. For one thing, you can let the familiar Help others on many rounds, since you can move freely and then hide as a bonus action, but you also can always dash, almost any round you need to, basically guaranteed. That means no rounds spent not attacking, and it means more room to make enemies choose between taking BB secondary damage, and staying put and taking suboptimal actions.

IME, a Swashbuckler or rogue with Mobile gets BB off significantly more times per combat.

I also wonder just how much of an impact Mage Slayer and War Caster have on spell casting rogues, but those are harder to accurately quantify.
 

FrogReaver

As long as i get to be the frog
I think you are vastly overestimating the amount of time you will get advantage. Familiars did all the time. Once your familiar is gone your source of advantage is gone. This benefits the rogue more than the fighter

you also ignore the fighters action surge which is a fairly large equalizer. 3 extra attacks per short rest average to 9 attacks per day. That’s a significant daily damage boost
 
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Esker

Hero
I think you are vastly overestimating the amount of time you will get advantage. Familiars did all the time. Once your familiar is gone your source of advantage is gone. This benefits the rogue more than the fighter

This feels like a familiar caveat (pun certainly intended)...

Caveats: This character is using a second level spell slot each combat encounter compared to the fighter's 1st level slot. And they clearly lose much more when the owl is unavailable (though if in dim conditions they will still get advantage from shadow blade, and at this level they have versatile trickster as well).

Owlvantage is clearly very much an issue of YMMV. My arcane trickster gets it a lot, as the DM rarely tries to kill the owl (smart owl tactics help too: it's generally pretty obvious if the enemy is readying a melee attack to swipe at it during a flyby, so just don't that round; then they waste their action which is even better than advantage. As for AoEs, camping out directly above the enemy is pretty useful to avoid those, since any AoE that would hit the owl either would also hit the caster or wouldn't hit any other party members. And how many enemies are going to spend a fireball just to kill a familiar, or fireball themselves to kill a familiar?

But again, even aside from the owl, the shadow blade wielding arcane trickster has a lot of other possible sources of advantage: dim light, versatile trickster, and anything an ally might do. Using the owl to help only to fill in the gaps likely also helps the familiar survive.

you also ignore the fighters action surge which is a fairly large equalizer. 3 extra attacks per short rest average to 9 attacks per day. That’s a significant daily damage boost

Not ignoring it...

Caveats: Once per short rest, action surge gives another three attacks without advantage, for an extra 34ish extra damage on average. A downside adjustment is that Hex uses a bonus action each time you select a new target, costing you 11ish damage on those turns. It seems reasonable to call these two things an approximate wash.

Not to mention, I did this analysis based on Hex assuming that the eldritch knight was using it all the time, but since the build in question got it from magic initiate, they can actually only use it an hour a day. So I was overstating the EK's damage a bit.
 
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