Paizo To Make Kingmaker Bestiary... For D&D 5E!

Jester David · May 6, 2019

Jharet said:
Yes. The AP has been out of print. Pathfinder players actually want to play it. Not everyone likes to use PDfs and would like a collected edition of something out of print. Shouldn't be that hard for you to understand.

If the only thing stopping you from running an AP is having a physical copy, send the PDFs to a print shop. Get a black-and-White coil bound copy that you can use AND WRITE ON. Hilight, not notes, reference page numbers, etc.

oreofox · May 6, 2019

Aldarc said:
I am uncertain whether Paizo can position themselves there. My understanding is that the 5E OGL is not as open source as the d20 OGL.

The 5e OGL is the exact same as the one Paizo uses for Pathfinder. What is included in the SRD, however, is much more restricted compared to the 3e SRD. Each class only has a single subclass, each race only has a single subrace, there's only 1 background, and I think only a single feat? I could be wrong on the feat, though. Don't feel like looking it up. I also believe the named spells are completely left out, instead of just the name part of the spell. It's rather smart on WotC's part to highly restrict the SRD so when the inevitable 6e comes out, and people rage at how bad it is, another company can't swoop in and take everything 5e, make a few changes, and create a competing game that surpasses WotC's own D&D edition (similar to Pathfinder surpassing 4e with an "outdated" edition). Though, sucks for fans of 5e who can't have a new Pathfinder-like edition that takes everything 5e, makes a few changes, and competes with and surpasses 6e. That is, of course, if 6e ends up being a new 4e in reception.

Hussar · May 6, 2019

Jester David said:
/snip

I disagree with darjr about Paizo and 5e. Mostly because I think 5e is at is peak and facing its inevitable decline. There’s still many years left, but I think the number of books and accessories people need/want for 5e is shrinking. There’s less room for 3rd Party books.
There would be something deeply, deeply ironic about Paizo slowly becoming more dependant on 5e over the next five or six years only to be surprised when WotC announces 6e.

What evidence do you see that 5e has "peaked"? By all accounts, 5e is still growing at a very, very healthy rate. While I agree that 5e has to peak sometime, I'm not sure that that sometime is "now".

Jester David · May 6, 2019

Jharet said:
After waiting for years for a Kingmaker collected edition for Pathfinder, it is a bit of a slap in the face to fans to see it offered to 5E players. Once, Mona and company announce the new Starstone Module for 5E, the message will be clearer. So, meh. Good for 5e players in that they can get a good adventure.

???
Did you read the presss release? The collected edition IS Pathfinder. Just Pathfinder 2. (Because it’s coming out a year after PF2’s launch.)

The 5e component isn’t the AP, just a Bestiary for conversion. So players can take the NPCs and monsters in that book and convert the rest of the AP. It’s likely going to be a smallish book.

Jharet said:
Thanks for trying to provoke me. I don't have a problem with 5e or the community. It just doesn't interest me, nor the revisionist history surrounding its recent rise in popularity. Glad I could enlighten your days.

5e was released in 2014 and was an instant hit, being an immediate best seller that was rivaling 4e and 3e by late 2015.
Critical Role started in 2015 but likely wasn’t a “hit” until 2016-17.
Stranger Things was released at the end of 2016.

Whose history is revisionist?

Jester David · May 6, 2019

Hussar said:
What evidence do you see that 5e has "peaked"? By all accounts, 5e is still growing at a very, very healthy rate. While I agree that 5e has to peak sometime, I'm not sure that that sometime is "now".

Gut feeling.
Personal anecdotal evidence.
I think people are reaching saturation. I need maybe one good monster book. I think one more subclass book is needed. Maybe the psion. And I have more adventures that I need. After that, there’s little they can publish to improvise my game.
Meanwhile, I think most of the people who would play and are interested and been exposed already. New player acquisition is going to slow down.

Plus, 2017 was a huge year and 2018 was even better. Can 2019 be even better? Or just the same as things plateau?

If 2018 was the peak, then 2019 will be close to what 2017 was. And 2017 was a huge year. And since 2014 was a string year too, 2022 will still be decent sales. And the game could go to 2024 before they really need to have a new edition.
And that’s assuming the decline is as sharp as the rise. It will likely be slower.

CapnZapp · May 6, 2019

oreofox said:
The 5e OGL is the exact same as the one Paizo uses for Pathfinder. What is included in the SRD, however, is much more restricted compared to the 3e SRD.

But is that a problem if your goal isn't to make material specifically compatible with 5E?

The PF2 I envision might lose specific 5Eisms like advantage (since it needs a more gradual bonus system to support more fine-grained crunch).

I would have thought Paizo would just use whatever PF1 was based on.

CapnZapp · May 6, 2019

Jester David said:
???
Did you read the presss release? The collected edition IS Pathfinder. Just Pathfinder 2.

Those are two different games incompatible with each other. Getting PF2 material is of zero help if you need PF1 material.

Hussar · May 6, 2019

Jharet said:
Thanks for trying to provoke me. I don't have a problem with 5e or the community. It just doesn't interest me, nor the revisionist history surrounding its recent rise in popularity. Glad I could enlighten your days.

Umm, revisionist? Stranger things came out two years AFTER the release of 5e. At a point where 5e was already rocketing up the ranks of best selling edition. If Stranger Things and online streaming was a critical part of the popularity of 5e, how do you explain 5e's popularity before those things were released?

Hussar · May 6, 2019

Jester David said:
Gut feeling.
Personal anecdotal evidence.
I think people are reaching saturation. I need maybe one good monster book. I think one more subclass book is needed. Maybe the psion. And I have more adventures that I need. After that, there’s little they can publish to improvise my game.
Meanwhile, I think most of the people who would play and are interested and been exposed already. New player acquisition is going to slow down.

Plus, 2017 was a huge year and 2018 was even better. Can 2019 be even better? Or just the same as things plateau?

If 2018 was the peak, then 2019 will be close to what 2017 was. And 2017 was a huge year. And since 2014 was a string year too, 2022 will still be decent sales. And the game could go to 2024 before they really need to have a new edition.
And that’s assuming the decline is as sharp as the rise. It will likely be slower.

Fair enough. My gut tells me all sorts of things. Stupid gut.

Let's say you're right and 2019 is the plateau year, but, the decline is half the speed of the rise. Not terribly unreasonable I think, since there's been no sign whatsoever that sales of core books have slacked off at all. The core three are all still about the same place on the Amazon sales lists that they've been for a few years now.

That means that we'd be hitting new edition territory ten years from now. That's a pretty healthy horse to hitch a wagon to in the gaming industry.

And, if Paizo plays its cards right, it could hoover up those that don't want to switch to a new edition same as it did from 3e to 4e.

ShinHakkaider · May 6, 2019

Jharet said:
Yes. The AP has been out of print. Pathfinder players actually want to play it. Not everyone likes to use PDfs and would like a collected edition of something out of print. Shouldn't be that hard for you to understand.

This AP has gone out of print RECENTLY. As within the last year or so.

It originally came out in...wait for it...2010.

It's NINE years old. Even if some of the books went out of print last year youre still looking at it being around for EIGHT YEARS.
I could excuse people OUTSIDE of Pathfinder not knowing or not hearing about it. But Pathfinder fans KNEW of the exisitance of this AP for at this point ALMOST A DECADE.

There's literally no excuse for someone who actually wanted to run or play this NOT to have gotten the books when they were readily available.

And if you REALLY just want to run the adventure? Get the PDF's, have them printed out and spiral bound. DONE. Now you have a usable compliation of all of the adventures. Hell if you have Adobe Acrobat you can move some things around and have the adventure compilation as one book, relevant campaign backmatter info as another book and a compiled Bestiary as another.