Savage species monster feats + feats for pc lvl = double the # of feats?

Bear · Oct 9, 2003

If I understand this correctly, as you progress thru Monster Class levels, you gain the feats of that monster as you go along as a part of the class.

Are you still entitled to the feats you earn as a PC at levels 1, 3, 6, ect...?

I ask this because it seems redundant. Monsters get 1 feat for their first HD and one for every 3rd HD beyond, much like PC's get feats for advancing levels.

So it seems like by taking a monster class you get double the amount of feats.

Darklone · Oct 9, 2003

Nope, it's the same. Monster levels are considered class levels. Your total level (which is interesting for the feats you get) will be your monster levels + your character level.

Example: Minotaur. You finished your monster class levels... got a feat at level 1, 3, 6 and let's say you went berserk, barbarian 1 (e.g. level 9 all together). Your next feat will come at level 12... e.g. minotaur 8/ barbarian 4.

Bear · Oct 9, 2003

Darklone said:
Nope, it's the same. Monster levels are considered class levels. Your total level (which is interesting for the feats you get) will be your monster levels + your character level.

Example: Minotaur. You finished your monster class levels... got a feat at level 1, 3, 6 and let's say you went berserk, barbarian 1 (e.g. level 9 all together). Your next feat will come at level 12... e.g. minotaur 8/ barbarian 4.

So the feats that a Minotaur gets (Great Fortitude, Power Attack, Track) you do or dont automatically get as "class abilities" as you progress thru the Minotaur levels?

Darklone · Oct 9, 2003

These feats as listed in the Monster Manual are only one example what a minotaur with all 8 class levels (e.g. 6 HD) could take.

Bear · Oct 9, 2003

Darklone said:
These feats as listed in the Monster Manual are only one example what a minotaur with all 8 class levels (e.g. 6 HD) could take.

Ok, i just looked at the example of the Minotaur in the SS book... Under 'Special' it says it gets a feat at 1'st level, 4th lvl and 8th lvl. It lists these 'feats' along side other benefits the PC gets with extra attack types, pump-ups to stats and other special abilities. It seems very much like the way a Fighter gets 'feats' as he progresses thru figher levels.

So the big question is: As a player playing a PC, am I still entitled to my PC feats for reaching 1st lvl, 3rd lvl, 6th lvl, 9th lvl... ect?

To use my example above, a fighther is entitled to his PC feats on top of the ones he gets as class abilities... how is the minotaur different?

CRGreathouse · Oct 9, 2003

Bear said:
Ok, i just looked at the example of the Minotaur in the SS book... Under 'Special' it says it gets a feat at 1'st level, 4th lvl and 8th lvl. It lists these 'feats' along side other benefits the PC gets with extra attack types, pump-ups to stats and other special abilities. It seems very much like the way a Fighter gets 'feats' as he progresses thru figher levels.

So the big question is: As a player playing a PC, am I still entitled to my PC feats for reaching 1st lvl, 3rd lvl, 6th lvl, 9th lvl... ect?

To use my example above, a fighther is entitled to his PC feats on top of the ones he gets as class abilities... how is the minotaur different?

The 4th level of minotaur is the 3rd HD, so you get a feat... the 8th level is your 6th HD, so you get a feat. When you get enough class levels that you have 9 HD, you'll get another feat.

The Souljourner · Oct 9, 2003

Feats are acquired through hitdice *not* equivalent character level. The feats you receive from these monster races should coincide with that. The *only* feats that do not coincide with that are those marked as bonus feats (superscript B in the monster manual). Those are actually free feats above and beyond everything else.

This is all made perfectly clear by the 3.5 MM, and it's really not something up for interpretation. Savage Species tried to be 3.5 compliant, but it's still pre-3.5. You definitely don't get fighter-like bonus feats from taking a racial class like that, and in my mind, any attempt to make them into that is blatant munchkinism.

-The Souljourner

Bear · Oct 9, 2003

CRGreathouse said:
The 4th level of minotaur is the 3rd HD, so you get a feat... the 8th level is your 6th HD, so you get a feat. When you get enough class levels that you have 9 HD, you'll get another feat.

THATS IT!

Thats the explination I can understand. So PC's are awarded feats because they've reached 1HD, 3HD, 6HD, ect... not directly because they reached 1st lvl, 3rd lvl, 6th lvl, ect... It just happens to coinside that when you take a standard PC class that you gain 1HD per level... And that's not always the case when you take a Monster Class. I had not noticed that 'till It was explained as such.

Thank you!

Nitpicking on semantics here, Basic PC class progression lists don't insert 'feat' into their 'special' column; it's a given that when you reach 3rd lvl/3HD you get a feat. Why, then, do they put 'Feat' in the special column in the Monster class progression for acheiving 3HD?

Looking at it now, it's kinda like "Duh, ya I'm aware I get a feat at 3rd lvl/3hd. You don't have to tell me..."

Like I said... just semantics and no use quibbling... I understand you dont get PC feats for HD and level along side of listed monster feats. No ones perfect, perhaps they put 'feat' in the monster class list just to remind you that that's the level it comes at, in case you forgot or didnt realize (like I had) that PC feats are rewarded for HD and not level.

EDIT: I just found the difference in the 'feat' listed in the special column of the monster class and the 'feat' listed for fighters in the fighter's special column. Fighters get 'BONUS FEAT'... not just 'feat'.

IT'S ALL SO CLEAR TO ME NOW! MUAHAHAHAHAHA

I fear the proccess in comming to this understanding may have driven me MAD!

CRGreathouse · Oct 9, 2003

I'm glad I could help.

Bear said:
Nitpicking on semantics here, Basic PC class progression lists don't insert 'feat' into their 'special' column; it's a given that when you reach 3rd lvl/3HD you get a feat. Why, then, do they put 'Feat' in the special column in the Monster class progression for acheiving 3HD?

When you take monster classes, you can't multiclass until you finish -- so your 3rd HD in the monster class is your 3rd HD overall. That, combined with the fact that monster classes don't always get HD, made it complicated enough that designers decided to list feats, I suppose.