D&D 5E [Houserule] An Alternative Bless and Guidance

Stalker0 · May 10, 2019

Some people love Bless and Guidance as they are, and some considering them OP. For me, its both there extreme power, and adds a lot of fiddly dice rolling.

This house rule addresses both parts.

EDIT: I adjusted Bless to be more in line with my intended use.

Bless

You have a +3 proficiency bonus to all attacks and saving throws. This does not stack with normal proficiency bonuses.

--So what this does is make bless give a powerful and consistent bonus but one that tapers with time. For first level characters, this is a solid buff. For 5th level ones (once everyone has +3 proficiencies), this allows you to shore up your saving throw weaknesses (or attack rolls if you happen to use a weird weapon). But it doesn't stack and just give you "moar powwa!". Its still very useful, but not as outright powerful as before...and no extra rolling needed.

Guidance
1st level Spell (not a cantrip)
Concentration: None

Duration: 1 hour
Targets: You and up to 6 creatures

Effect: Targets gain a +1 to skill checks.

--This addresses some of the "spam" concerns about guidance in certain areas. Its a solid, general buff, that helps the whole party in scenarios, and allows the cleric to help the whole team instead of giving 1 team member a big boost. It lasts an hour so you don't have to rush through things, but you also can't just use guidance all day long willy nilly. And again no rolling, just add the bonus, no muss no fuss. It also removes the constant DM calls on whether guidance is appropriate for certain situations.

Thoughts?

Li Shenron · May 10, 2019

They are ok.

I don't have issues with Bless, but I do dislike Guidance spammability, and this HR takes it away.

Although I am not very fond of changing Guidance to a mass spell. It gives it a very different feel... I am ok with Guidance representing a single-target boost. I just don't like how it can be cast continuously.

MonkeezOnFire · May 10, 2019

As written I don't think this revised Bless actually would shore up your weak saving throws. You only add your proficiency bonus to saves in which you are proficient. Reassigning your proficiency bonus to be a specific number will only affect rolls in which you add your proficiency bonus.

I'm guessing you also intend for the spells to apply the newly calculated proficiency bonus to all attacks and saving throws?

That being said I'm also not a fan of reassigning the proficiency bonus because it then means I have to on the fly recalculate a bunch of different numbers on my sheet. That number gets used in a lot of calculations. IMO this would be more fiddly than remembering to roll an additional die.

Stalker0 · May 10, 2019

MonkeezOnFire said:
As written I don't think this revised Bless actually would shore up your weak saving throws. You only add your proficiency bonus to saves in which you are proficient. Reassigning your proficiency bonus to be a specific number will only affect rolls in which you add your proficiency bonus.

Very good point. The intention was to provide this bonus to all saving throws.

So:

1) If your proficiency bonus = 0 (you aren't proficient). You now get a +3 prof
2) If your proficient at +2, its now +3.
3) If your proficient at +3 or higher, no bonus.

I'll edit the spell to make the language better, thank you very much.

I generally find that when my party uses bless they use it a lot. So yes there is some recalculation but then its done. With rolling its everytime.

The Crimson Binome · May 10, 2019

It looks good to me. Giving someone a different Proficiency value to track seems kind of weird, but it's not more weird than Barkskin. I can't really imagine anyone using this new version of Guidance, but there are plenty of dud spells out there, and it's better to be under-powered than over-powered.

Have you given any thought into upcastability? If you cast Bless in a level 3 spell slot, does it give a Proficiency bonus of +4?

BluejayJunior · May 10, 2019

I do not like your change to Bless at all. It changes it from a "fiddly dice roll" (I don't consider rolling an extra d4 to be fiddly or difficult) that is always helpful to a fiddly bonus that is only occasionally helpful.
At levels 1-4, it's essentially just a +1 bonus except for the saving throws you aren't proficient in. I don't think I would ever use it at those levels because there are too few spell slots and the bonus isn't worth it.
After that is useless for increasing attack bonus and only affects nonproficient saving throws. So it's only useful when you know you are going up against something that uses spells/abilities that target saving throws that your party is not proficient in. How often do you actually have that information? And also have a enough of a party that share that weakness for it to be worth the spell and concentration cost?

Personally, I have no problem with Bless as it is, but there are definitely better ways to change it. If you want it to give a consistent bonus without rolling, why not just a flat +1 or +2? Then it is at least useful at all levels. You could even say that it doesn't stack with magical bonuses if you're worried about it getting too strong.

And if you don't want to change it from your current iteration, I would change the wording a bit. As it is right now, if you cast it and have a +4 or higher proficiency bonus, it actually lowers it to a +3 based on how it's worded.

Satyrn · May 10, 2019

Guidance seems quite unappealing as a 1st level spell.

The Bless is an interesting idea . . . What if you just have Guidance give that +3 proficiency bonus to skills.

lumenbeing · May 10, 2019

Stalker0 said:
Some people love Bless and Guidance as they are, and some considering them OP. For me, its both there extreme power, and adds a lot of fiddly dice rolling.

This house rule addresses both parts.

EDIT: I adjusted Bless to be more in line with my intended use.

Bless

You have a +3 proficiency bonus to all attacks and saving throws. This does not stack with normal proficiency bonuses.

--So what this does is make bless give a powerful and consistent bonus but one that tapers with time. For first level characters, this is a solid buff. For 5th level ones (once everyone has +3 proficiencies), this allows you to shore up your saving throw weaknesses (or attack rolls if you happen to use a weird weapon). But it doesn't stack and just give you "moar powwa!". Its still very useful, but not as outright powerful as before...and no extra rolling needed.

Guidance
1st level Spell (not a cantrip)
Concentration: None

Duration: 1 hour
Targets: You and up to 6 creatures

Effect: Targets gain a +1 to skill checks.

--This addresses some of the "spam" concerns about guidance in certain areas. Its a solid, general buff, that helps the whole party in scenarios, and allows the cleric to help the whole team instead of giving 1 team member a big boost. It lasts an hour so you don't have to rush through things, but you also can't just use guidance all day long willy nilly. And again no rolling, just add the bonus, no muss no fuss. It also removes the constant DM calls on whether guidance is appropriate for certain situations.

Thoughts?

If I was a cleric playing at your table under these rules, I would be pissed. These two spells are core to the cleric’s class. The whole idea is that a cleric is constantly in touch with her deity and can ask THEM for guidance at almost any time. Its like whispering a little prayer. “Lord of Light, guide my hand and show us your favor) It makes a cleric feel like a cleric. Its part if why you want a cleric in the party. The way to address “spam concerns” is to explain this fact to anyone concerned.
Nerfing bless is equally unnecessary and effectively removes one of a clerics best low level spells from play. That is inconsistent with the game’s design principles. A blessing from a god should absolutely stack with any other bonuses including proficiency. No mater what stage of life you are in or how good you are at something, everyone can use a little help from a higher power.

Ristamar · May 10, 2019

I set the bonus of both spells to a flat +2.

Stalker0 · May 10, 2019

Satyrn said:
Guidance seems quite unappealing as a 1st level spell.

What do you think is the main weakness. Bonus is too spell, duration is too short, simple fact of having to burn a spell slot period?

D&D 5E [Houserule] An Alternative Bless and Guidance

Stalker0

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Li Shenron

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MonkeezOnFire

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Stalker0

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The Crimson Binome

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BluejayJunior

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Ristamar

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Stalker0

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