D&D 5E The Final Announcement from The Descent Live Stream: Eberron Hardcover

Abstruse · May 20, 2019

Dr. Bull said:
But please don't misuse the term "legitimate grievance" as a term in this discussion. A legitimate grievance would be something like liability for "severe bodily injury," "malpractice," or "sexual harassment".

Or fraud. Or deceptive advertising. For example, spending $20 on a PDF you were told would continue to be updated only to later be told you'd have to spend $50-60 for a hardcover book...

vecna00 · May 20, 2019

Abstruse said:
Yeah, I'm curious too. Seems that Mearls is saying that people who bought Wayfarer's Guide would get full updates until they're out of "playtest" (which only affects you if you're playing Adventurer's League)...but that goes counter to the "New hardback, cough up another $50" announcement tonight. Which is the big problem with the announcement is that it gives NO details. Which is what causes speculation, particularly in a niche hobby like this, negative speculation.

I do not know what their PR department was thinking...

It should be easy for some people to vote with their wallets then. The new hardcover certainly won't be required to run Eberron, especially if you already have the PDF.

lkj · May 20, 2019

Abstruse said:
Yeah, I'm curious too. Seems that Mearls is saying that people who bought Wayfarer's Guide would get full updates until they're out of "playtest" (which only affects you if you're playing Adventurer's League)...but that goes counter to the "New hardback, cough up another $50" announcement tonight. Which is the big problem with the announcement is that it gives NO details. Which is what causes speculation, particularly in a niche hobby like this, negative speculation.

I do not know what their PR department was thinking...

But it doesn't seem counter. It's exactly what they said they would do. If Wayfinders did well they would release a complementary hardback. That's exactly what is happening.

And Stewart was 'spoiling' a future release. Sure, I can see why it was annoying to get so little info if you waited around to watch it. Legit annoyance.
But that's because they wanted the focus on Descent with Nathan's bit at the end just as a teaser for the next product hype cycle.

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lkj · May 20, 2019

Abstruse said:
Or fraud. Or deceptive advertising. For example, spending $20 on a PDF you were told would continue to be updated only to later be told you'd have to spend $50-60 for a hardcover book...

But the book is getting updated. They'll be adding the artificer. They are adjusting the material based on playtest feedback. There's nothing deceptive about that. They even told us at the beginning there might be a complementary hard back later. I really don't understand why this seems deceptive.

I can only see the complaint if you thought that they were saying they would add all future Eberron material to the pdf. But they definitely didn't say that.

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Satyrn · May 20, 2019

Abstruse said:
Or fraud. Or deceptive advertising. For example, spending $20 on a PDF you were told would continue to be updated only to later be told you'd have to spend $50-60 for a hardcover book...

You got a good point.

Last year, Mearls jumped out of a box that I found left on my doorstep. As if that wasn't terrifying enough, he then pulled a gun on me and forced me to drive to the local game store to buy a copy of Dragon Heist.

If he does that to you*, it'll suck even harder than it did for me since at least there was no pdf to buy first.

*And the odds are pretty good that he will. He's been ramping up this "guerrila sales pitch" as he called it. And that's why he's not seen in public any more.

LuisCarlos17f · May 20, 2019

I would buy it, when it to be translated to my language.

I miss Greyhawk. My last AD&D 2nd Ed book I bought was "the Scarlet Brotherhood", but I notice now it is a too small world for all the new classes and races.

* My opinion is Spelljammer is a playtesting for the upcoming Modern 2.0. and I could bet Hasbro has got plans about D&D vehicles to sell toys, something like its own version of He-Man and the Masters of the Universe.

* Maybe Mystara can come back as a new videogame by Capcom, or Savage Coast/Red Steel as the D&D version of the Pirates of the Caribbean Sea.

* Dragonlance? I think they are waiting an movie adaptation (or cartoon serie). Warner is wishing to use it like their next blockbuster.

* Don't worry about Dark Sun. Do you want soon or a good work?

* Ravenloft? Now the supernatural romance are old-fashioned but it is perfect for adult players and no killing walking dead is very popular.

* Maybe Planescape only needs a good videogame, but then it has to be made by the right studio, and now Bioware isn't in its best moment.

Abstruse · May 20, 2019

vecna00 said:
It should be easy for some people to vote with their wallets then. The new hardcover certainly won't be required to run Eberron, especially if you already have the PDF.

The downside of voting with your wallet in this sort of limited market is giving the wrong impression. In this case, that setting books are not wanted as opposed to setting books that have not already been published under this edition just in a digital format.

Abstruse · May 20, 2019

Satyrn said:
You got a good point.

Last year, Mearls jumped out of a box that I found left on my doorstep. As if that wasn't terrifying enough, he then pulled a gun on me and forced me to drive to the local game store to buy a copy of Dragon Heist.

Oh yes, I totally forget that false and deceptive advertising were the same as a corporate employee who hasn't been seen or heard from in almost four months threatening me at gunpoint. That's a brilliant and totally rational argument to counter legitimate consumer concerns regarding a product.

Enevhar Aldarion · May 20, 2019

Abstruse said:
Or fraud. Or deceptive advertising. For example, spending $20 on a PDF you were told would continue to be updated only to later be told you'd have to spend $50-60 for a hardcover book...

Yes, the information in the initial release of the PDF would continually get updated or erratad as needed, as with any PDF that a game company sells. The only thing they said for sure that would be added to the PDF is the Artificer class and associated new material needed to play one. So that $20 got you everything in the initial PDF you bought, plus the eventual addition of the Artificer. Nothing more. So hopefully people who bought it did not misunderstand that and expected additional new stuff to be added.

Abstruse · May 20, 2019

Enevhar Aldarion said:
Yes, the information in the initial release of the PDF would continually get updated or erratad as needed, as with any PDF that a game company sells. The only thing they said for sure that would be added to the PDF is the Artificer class and associated new material needed to play one. So that $20 got you everything in the initial PDF you bought, plus the eventual addition of the Artificer. Nothing more. So hopefully people who bought it did not misunderstand that and expected additional new stuff to be added.

Yes, the initial game got patched as needed, as with any game a AAA video game company sales. The only thing they said for sure that would be added was the One Extra Character Skin and new associated material needed to play that one. So that $20 you paid for the Early Access got you everything in the initial game you bought, plus all of the patches and that one single character skin. Nothing more. So hopefully people who bought it did not misunderstand and will still pay the full premium price of $50-60 for our new game that will come out that's essentially the same as the previous game we said we'd continue to support.

Starting to see why people might be upset? Seriously, picture a video game company doing this on Elder Scrolls 6 or The Outer Worlds or something else and just imagine the rant Jim Sterling would go on.