3e Conversions

Stupid, really stupid

Yes, I'm afraid I also find this to be quite disappointing. There's a lot of hard work out there by a lot of avid gamers who fully support the spirit of the OGL/d20, and I can only see them getting shafted by WotC on this one.

This seems to be a lose-lose situation. If people convert old stuff, regardless of whether they include their own ideas and creative input (I think it's called creative license, eh?), others are still required to obtain the original WotC product to make use of that material -- so what do they think they they're losing by allowing open conversions??

Fine, I'm happy to include all the legal mumbo-jumbo, but why should I limit myself to simply altering stat blocks? Dull, and not worth my time. If people stop doing conversions from all this 1E and 2E stuff, think of all the people out there who won't buy the ESDs at all 'cause they have no reason to without the relevant conversion available.

Maybe this is just WotC's way of saying "We want to leave the door open for us to do Return to (insert module titles ad nauseum), so back off."

Can anyone provide a link to the WotC boards where they're discussing this topic? -- I might break a personal rule and actually post something there...

Leopold said:

Now that the offical policy has come down and morrus has shut down the conversion library let me as you this Morrus: Where are the files? How we can we edit them to MAKE them pertain to the new licensing schema if we don't see them to fix them? As you said there were hundreds of files there but NOW they are gone and we can't fix them.

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Well, obviously I can't make them available again. That would be me distributing them. I'm the one who would get into trouble, not the authors.

Not to be a pain nor to antagonize you, Morrus, but do you want the Conversion Library? You seem a little half-hearted about it. And I've noticed one or two comments you've made in the past that seem to indicate that you find it as much a bother as anything else (i.e., bandwidth, time commitment, etc.).

I certainly don't mean to put words in your mouth, however.

Morrus said:

Well, obviously I can't make them available again. That would be me distributing them. I'm the one who would get into trouble, not the authors.

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so then all those files are now GONE!??!!?


this is insane. Is there a way they can setup a time limit in which we can then convert them over? Anyway you can talk to them? Anyone? Anyone?

By not having access to the converted material to bring it up to compliance we are left with just starting from scratch! Ludicris!

Red Baron said:

Not to be a pain nor to antagonize you, Morrus, but do you want the Conversion Library? You seem a little half-hearted about it. And I've noticed one or two comments you've made in the past that seem to indicate that you find it as much a bother as anything else (i.e., bandwidth, time commitment, etc.).

I certainly don't mean to put words in your mouth, however.

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I don't recall saying that. The main thing about it was the conflicting messages I was getting from WotC about it, which made me a little wary of it. But I guess now things are clear (if revokable...)

Morrus said:

I don't recall saying that. The main thing about it was the conflicting messages I was getting from WotC about it, which made me a little wary of it. But I guess now things are clear (if revokable...)

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still this doesn't help the dozens of people that spent thousands of man hours converting this material for years. It doesn't help the people that spend their OWN time and effort in converting the material.

Now if they said "In 60 days you must be in compliance or you will be shut down" I would agree to this. A moritorium on this would be preffered instead of the instant shutdown that just occured.

Is it right? no, But it's business and it happened and we must now find a way to either migrate the material to the new licensing schema or reconvert the material from scratch.

Now does anyone have the conversion library backed up anywwhere? All hundreds of files? If so you (individual or group) could begin the process but stipulate that "THIS IS NOT FOR DISTRIBUTION ONLY FOR CONVERSION TO NEW LICENSING" status.

Is that a plausable if not legal stipulation? Morrus, anyway you can work with the people with WOTC on this to give us a deadline of 90days to convert the material to the new licensing schema?

Re: Stupid, really stupid

Red Baron said:

Maybe this is just WotC's way of saying "We want to leave the door open for us to do Return to (insert module titles ad nauseum), so back off."

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I think thats exactly what they're planning...

Oh well i look forward to OFFICIAL conversions of old
1E and 2E stuff...

Hope they are good...


Harlequin

[I on purposly refrained from letting everyone know how totally bogus this is for the fans...oh well corporate suits to the resue as always... ]

I myself am hopping mad about this (no offense to Nemmerle). I have been an avid user of the conversion documents and see about as much threat from them to Wizards' intellectual property as from the seafood industry.

In my opinion, this has very little to do with Intellectual property protection, as it has to do with enforcing tighter controls over small yet popular niche of hobby gaming.

I can certainly understand that wizards would not want full text of an adventure in a conversion, but their heavy mention and focus on ESD's in this document makes it clear to me that:

• The ESD's are making enough such that theft of the adventures is a money-losing deal for them, and
• They have taken a new interest in conversions, which suggests an expansion of side-line business of conversions.

At first, there was confusion on official policy because, as in standard business practices, things that make the least money or are expected to make the least money are pushed to the bottom of the priority lists. I honestly believe that no one at WotC expected there to be a nominal interest in conversions.

It now upsets me greatly that two years' worth of work is either required to be revised, or in some cases is lost completely.

Between this and the layoffs, I am beginning to imagine the cold, icy grip of old TSR management come over WotC in a big way.

First we have Three layoffs, this being the third since Mid-2001, involving (I believe) about 260 people total? Just how many people actually work(ed) at WotC, and how many are actually left?

Second, we have the departure of many former stellar WotC figures, including messr's Cook, Dancey, Cordell, Adkinson, etc.

Third, we have the gradual extension of the OGL into other areas, particularly into the realms of miniatures (after the Chainmail game was realized as a large success) and now conversions.

I merely hope that we do not see a reduction of the OGL and d20 permissions to the extent that 3rd party products are almost unusable. I think it was Ryan who said that the OGL could not be revoked once the contract was in place? If he actually did say that, I begin to doubt the veracity of it, with the changes in the license. If they start making d20 Software restricted, and start enforcing IPS laws against other Software makers, then even the programs we use to prepare for P&P games may dry out. I support WotC, but I also do not wish to use a product (such as the release version of Mastertools) that does ABSOUTELY NOTHING for me or my game.

In my view, there has of late been a degredation the quality of sourcebook products, and as this tendency increases and WotC runs out of the products produced by Monte and Bruce and others, I will likely stop buying WotC products and gravitate my spending towards d20 products from people like Monte, Chris Pramas, and Bruce Cordell, as well as Fiery Dragon, Sword & Sorcery, and so forth. I wish White Wolf had a Corporate IPO - I would be buying stock in them like mad right about now.

As Morrus said, it's a bad news day for WotC - and for employees and conversion fans , as well.

Madman - Some of the conversions are for adventures that haven't been made an an ESD? Bastion Press can't find good copies of the modules to scan them all.

I have 3 files contact me off boards if you want to convert them.

What about offical sites for Dark Sun, etc. Are they immune to this? are all of the fan sites now going to be shut down?

Mike

Penny wise, and pound foolish!


This whole situation is rather distressing. This site has been a wonderful resource for critters. It seems VERY foolish for WOTC to antagonize its fans like this. For some folks, converting critters and the like has become a hobby all its own.
As a DM, I would often prefer to create my own critters, though many a time I have consulted the conversions of monsters to see the EN take (which I would almost always change). Perhaps we should all concentrate on our own creatures/settings, and see how WOTC does without fan conversions. They obviously cant seem to keep up with demand, otherwise this site wouldnt be necessary.