3e Conversions

dcollins · Mar 14, 2002

No, that's not altogether a helpful response. Unfortunately, it seems to be inspired by the assumption that no one here could read or understand the legalese.

The major problems with what has been written are yet unanswered, including:
- Is this intentionally forbidding non-ESD conversions, or is that just an oversight?

The "legal out" at the end is of course easy to imagine the corporate motivation for. However, the explanation given above is truly not compelling. If copyright violations were endemic, cancelling this supplemental license would not change the situation.

Morrus · Mar 14, 2002

dcollins said:
The major problems with what has been written are yet unanswered, including:
- Is this intentionally forbidding non-ESD conversions, or is that just an oversight?

I'd be inclined to think that the following phrase does actually answer that question:

Anthony Valterra:

Please note that it says, “Wizards shall be the sole source of the original materials, whether they have been obtained as ESDs, scanned, or otherwise procured.” You are not limited to ESDs for conversion. You may convert a paper piece that you own from 1E or 2E! Information to the contrary was in error.

Blacksad · Mar 14, 2002

Dahak said:
What this looks like to me is an attempt by WotC to trick fans into creating Open Gaming Content for their ESD products, so they can re-release them as 3rd Edition works, and not pay a red cent to the person who did the conversion in the first place.

Could they provide an answer to this question?

Like: conversion of wizards PI grants an amount of money (equal to dungeon guidelines of I don't remember how many cent by word) if it is used in a published product by wizards?

Also they really need to modify the termination part so that, material created prior to the license is still available and new material created during the time this license will be effective can't be erased by a new license.

Dahak · Mar 14, 2002

Morrus said:
Also interesting to note is that WotC are claiming 'd20' as a trademark. Now that really confuses me...

That would be a ridiculous trademark claim on their part. The term 'd20' has been used commonly for over twenty years now by virtually every RPG company that used a twenty sided die. TSR didn't challenge that use, nor did WotC when they bought TSR, so I'll bet (even though I'm not a lawyer) they have already waived any such claim. It's possible that they meant "d20 System" and it's merely a typo, however.

Morrus · Mar 14, 2002

Blacksad said:
Could they provide an answer to this question?

Like: conversion of wizards PI grants an amount of money (equal to dungeon guidelines of I don't remember how many cent by word) if it is used in a published product by wizards?

You want them to pay you to use their own PI? I think they'd be more likely to just say "No, you can't use our PI" than agree to pay someone to use their own property.

Or are you referring to the OGC stat blocks themselves? OGC is "Open Gaming Content". Anyone can use it as they wish, including charging for it. In the same way, they've designated the entire SRD as Open Gaming Content and many companies and individuals can (and do) use it and make money from it without paying WotC a penny.

As for allegations that it's a trick - what exactly do you expect them to say in response to that? "Yes"?

JLXC · Mar 14, 2002

Whats to stop WOTC from "changing" their opinion on d20 and closing down all of them? Magic did it to all the card games that sprung up. What if in 2 years when WOTC is going down it tries to take everyone with it? Maybe some lawyer (there are a lot) on the boards here can tell us? I am writing for d20 and don't want to be screwed in a few months or years. Comments?

jester47 · Mar 14, 2002

Morrus,

I may have the resources to house a new Conversion Library.

I have to check this out but I have someone with the web coding skills and some good friends with the server space.

Granted if I was to do this I would have to send out a call for resubmissions, be able to edit the documents to be compliant, and have a policy that as monsters are converted by WotC that individual monter conversions are removed and replaced by a link to the product which covers that monster. In the adventure conversions the stat block will have to go and be replaced by a notice to wich product should be referenced and what page.

If I were to create a 3E D&D Conversion Coalition and do this, I would have to take editor liberties with the material.

I offer to do this for the community.

Aaron

Blacksad · Mar 14, 2002

I have badly expressed myself

Morrus said:
You want them to pay you to use their own PI? I think they'd be more likely to just say "No, you can't use our PI" than agree to pay someone to use their own property.

Or are you referring to the OGC stat blocks themselves? OGC is "Open Gaming Content". Anyone can use it as they wish, including charging for it. In the same way, they've designated the entire SRD as Open Gaming Content and many companies and individuals can (and do) use it and make money from it without paying WotC a penny.

As for allegations that it's a trick - what exactly do you expect them to say in response to that? "Yes"?

2:30 AM here so I beg your forgivness

I was referring to the OGC stat block, considering that they could remove the right to do the conversion or to use it, does it work with the OGL, which as I understand can't be revoked? Does it allows for product to be legal only some times? Ouch, I was wrong, it could allow such things it seems.

A new question, does it just address the fact that you refer to an ancient product when you do the conversion? then removing that reference and putting the d20 license might work for a lot of conversion, i.e. monster, classes, equipment, etc... you just shouldn't refer to them as conversion but instead refer to them as useful material, a ninja class in this material doesn't need to be labeled as an ancient OA class.
It's a small loophole, but if people are restricted in conversion to rules only, then releasing them as OGC instead of conversion would ensure that it isn't removed two years later.

the other question was dumb to, please excuse me

I will stop posting in threads on legals things until I get a good sleep I swear!

trancejeremy · Mar 14, 2002

I think what Wizards is worried about, is a 3rd party company picking stuff converted from earlier AD&D/D&D products up from a fan site, (in the mistaken belief that it's open content), then publishing it.

Same basic reason Palladium wants no fan sites converting their stuff to d20.

Only WOTC has more to lose, because as mentioned in this thread, more than one publisher has nicked stuff from 3E products when they shouldn't have...

Still, seems to me that conversions are a good thing (a long as they are just conversions), since they would get more people to buy the ESDs...so this might end up biting WOTC. Though probably not much.

Cergorach · Mar 14, 2002

For all those kids that need to make the necessary revisions, go here:

http://www.google.com/search?q=cach...onsdocs.htm+conversion+library&hl=en&ie=utf-8

I'm trying to make a backup right now, but for god sake, someone else do this as well (but wait for a couple of hours when i'm finished)...

[edit]
Done! Backed up most of it, some files are giving me trouble though...
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