Poll : Do you allow godless clerics?

Psion · Nov 11, 2003

I went with the "no for campaign reasons" thing. Generally speaking, I think a cleric by definition has power that springs from divinity; a godless cleric does paperwork.

That said, I could see if you have a campaign that has some sort of altenate explanation of where the power springs from, that's cool. The idea that the clerics power comes from faith itself never sat well with me, because a character whose powers do not come from divinity is by my definition an arcane spellcaster.

For flavor reasons, I find goddless casters of divine magic horrible, again unless you have a satisfying alternate explanation. Muttering about how your own faith sustains you seems rather bland compared to gathering power from spirits, the almighty, or whatnot.

Steverooo said:
If a Druid or Ranger can draw "divine" power from unintelligent nature, I don't see why a Cleric can't draw the same from an unintelligent ideal...

True, but even then, historically (pre-3e) there have been deities behind those powers, and even if dispassionate ones. Even in 3e, I veiw rangers and druids as deriving power from a powerful force associated with nature, not from "faith itself".

Olive · Nov 11, 2003

I require my clerics AND paladins to have gods. That being said I don't require rangers to, and druids worship 'nature'. Ranger magic I see as coming from a closeness to nature rather than worshipping it per se.

Bloodsparrow · Nov 11, 2003

I prefer "Ecumenical" to "Godless", though the Ur Priesthood from the Book of Vile Darkness were intriguing. (I suppose you could say that they were ecumenical as well... But evil...)

An Ur Priest at least worships (in a way) power... And their power comes directly from the divine, even if they resent the entities from which they get their illicit spells.

To be a cleric (and get spells to cast) you have to have some sort of cause. (Like Piffany from Nodwick. The ultimate old school cleric. No god per sae... she's just really really really good... Really.)

A cleric who reveres nothing, believes in nothing, and represents nothing is nothing but a second class fighter with a club.

HellHound · Nov 11, 2003

One of the things that REALLY appealed to me about 3e over prior editions is the godless cleric.

Mouseferatu · Nov 11, 2003

If I were running a setting that didn't use gods of some sort (like Dark Sun), I'd certainly allow a godless cleric. And if someone came to me with a fantastic idea for a godless cleric in a campaign with gods (or a single god), I'd at least consider it. For the most part, however, I will not allow godless clerics (or paladins) in a campaign setting that uses gods. It just makes no sense to me. (Then again, I usually define the specific source of druidic and ranger magic, too. It may not be a god, but it's just as set.)

NCSUCodeMonkey · Nov 11, 2003

I guess the answer really is, "It's all in how it's done by the player." I've seen a "godless" cleric done very well in a Planescape I ran once. I mean, he had a patron diety, but the trick was he thought he was a god

. Oh the wonderful, hilarious bouts of roleplaying we had with that. It's too bad the campaign fizzled due to lack of free time. I always wanted to see him lose his powers because he ticked himself off.

Oh well, maybe it's too weird for everyone else, but I thought it was great.

NCSUCodeMonkey

Moe Ronalds · Nov 11, 2003

I allow godless clerics, rationalizing that they recieve their spells from gods that choose to sponsor them, seeing that their actions serve the generic greater good. Much like where I believe paladins recieve their divine power (those that are godless, in any case), or clerics that worship demon lords.

Gothmog · Nov 11, 2003

I chose "don't like godless clerics for flavor reasons". All clerics, paladins, druids, and rangers MUST have a god in the games I run. Godless divine casters just feel completely wrong IMO. Not only is it awkward to explain in a metagame fashion, but in most ancient-medieval level societies, God(s) were personified forces of existence with definite personalities. A divine character that worships a concept doesn't jive well with a western view of existence, which IS what D&D is based on. Plus, IME, most people who want to play godless clerics want to play a character who isn't beholden to a church or heirarchy, but still want the incredible powers of a cleric. No thanks.

hong · Nov 11, 2003

Gothmog said:
I chose "don't like godless clerics for flavor reasons". All clerics, paladins, druids, and rangers MUST have a god in the games I run. Godless divine casters just feel completely wrong IMO. Not only is it awkward to explain in a metagame fashion,

It's perfectly simple to explain in a metagame fashion. "I cast this spell, which has V, S, DF components, and you regain ... 5 hit points!"

If you mean it's awkward to explain _in-game_, you just need to brush up on your metaphysics.

but in most ancient-medieval level societies, God(s) were personified forces of existence with definite personalities.

What, exactly, is the personality of the Holy Ghost?

d4 · Nov 11, 2003

I don't like the idea of godless clerics for flavor reasons, as many other people have already described. to me, by definition a divine spellcaster has to have some kind of specific divine source of his or her powers. i'm also one of those crazy DMs that makes rangers and druids select a patron deity as well.

if you want to play someone who gets magical powers based on faith in himself, play a sorcerer.