Underdark or Underdark Adventures

Tenbones · Nov 24, 2003

Anyone check out the Underdark Adventures book from Goodman Games? Is it better than the Underdark book from WotC? Or does it blow chunks? This greedy consumer would like to know before dropping $30 duckets.

elforcelf · Nov 27, 2003

I love it.I think it is better than the TSR book;and I love that book.If your are going to have a underdark campaim buy both.For just some wandering buy the one from Goodman's.elforcelf.

Tenbones · Nov 28, 2003

That's what I heard from some of my friends. I was perusing their copy of the Underdark from WotC and it seemed to me that for its size (and pricetag) the Wizard's book is kind of light on useful information. I'm middle of the road on the "crunch" vs. "cream" in my books. Some books I think demand it, other's can do without. In my mind, the Underdark definitely should be a "crunch" dominant book.

My friend just picked up the Underdark Adventure Guide and said he was surprised how good it was, and said basically the same thing. Both books are good, but he said the Goodman book was better. We're currently doing an Underdark campaign and I think both books are going to be incorporated. Anything kickass in there I should know about?

Napftor · Nov 28, 2003

Tenbones said:
...Anything kickass in there I should know about?

Don't know how often you check reviews here, Tenbones, but there was a pretty thorough one done recently...
http://www.enworld.org/reviews/index.php?sub=yes&where=active&reviewer=JoeGKushner&product=Unde2

haiiro · Nov 28, 2003

I bought WotC's Underdark a few days ago, and thus far I love it. It's got the balance of material that I like, and it's full of cool ideas. I was looking more for useful bits than a comprehensive guide to FR's Underdark, so while the book's a bit slim I think it's excellent.

I'm very curious to hear what others think about Underdark Adventures. Bring on the opinions!

Tenbones · Nov 29, 2003

Thanks Brett!

Yeah I read that review and went out and plunked down the money for the Underdark Adventure Guide, then being the sneaky wanker that I am, went to a friends house and borrowed his WotC Underdark book so I could read'em both over the holiday.

My thoughts: The Goodman is not as pretty, but in the end, I ain't in this for pretty. I liked the WotC Underdark book, but geeze louise, I *HAVE* all of this material from my 2nd Ed. stash of Underdark box sets, novels, pamphlets and cereal boxes. Seriously, it's an ok book, but there wasn't enough meat on it.

The Underdark Adventure Guide, however is all meat and a spoon of mashed potatoes. (Are these just references due to the turkey slaughtering I did over the last two days?). It doesn't try to create the next "new and cool" underground race. It takes what's there and established and runs with it. Now I have cool Drow prestige classes, 3ed rules on drow prosthetics (which I'm surprised worked pretty good). The stuff in the back with the locales was pretty interesting. I thought there was enough stuff back there for a serious campaign, the GM just has to fill in the details in between.

In terms of just overall quality, I'd have paid the WotC price for the Goodman book and felt justified (THIS DOES NOT MEAN I WANT TO SEE BOOKS AT THAT PRICE!). The Goodman book is better and for players and GM's that already know a lot about the Underdark and want to expand it. It's a better buy. THe best part about the Goodman book is that it fits in any campaign.

That said, the WotC book is still ok, and of course it *IS* Forgotten Realms, so there's always something cool you can find in an FR book. I personally dig the Imaskari. The art is nice. The information was mediocre, there was a *LOT* of meta-plot in it, which is good and bad, but it's lacking in detail. That said, I still might get it, if only for the maps and stuff. I can't help but think that WotC is slipping in its quality, and other companies are doing their work better... and cheaper.

My 2 coppers. I'd be interested in hearing what other's think as well.

Endur · Nov 29, 2003

I thought the WOTC book was great. I thought Chapter 8, the Forgotten Realms Underdark Geography section was worth the price of the book.

Both books had lots of Race information, PRCs, feats, domains and spells, magic items, equipment, and monsters. None of which is all that useful, honestly (I think the core rules have all I'll really need on these topics).

Both books have sections talking about the Underdark from a dungeon delver's perspective. I found both were interesting and useful.

The Underdark geography in the WOTC book was great. Including the maps.

Tenbones · Nov 30, 2003

Endur said:
I thought the WOTC book was great. I thought Chapter 8, the Forgotten Realms Underdark Geography section was worth the price of the book.

Great Chapter, agreed. Worth the entire price of admission? Negative! WotC books cost a LOT. I do expect higher quality books? Yes. But more importantly, I want the material to justify the cost more than anything else. Based on that, I totally disagree.

Endur said:
Both books had lots of Race information, PRCs, feats, domains and spells, magic items, equipment, and monsters. None of which is all that useful, honestly (I think the core rules have all I'll really need on these topics).

I suppose here is where we differ in playstyles. The Core Rules are completely vanilla to me and my group. We've squeezed the use out of every rule since first edition and we tend to delight in new things if they pass the plausibility test. In other words, if it's been in canon or tradition in previous editions, it's fair game for a 3e version, ESPECIALLY if it's never been seen before. Case in point, The WotC has the Drow Judicator PrC. It adds some interesting depth towards the direction a drow warrior might proceed, instead of the whole "fighter is a fighter is a fighter" cookie-cutter pov. Now back to the Judicator, does it pass the plausibility test? Sure! We've suspected roles like this would have to exist in Drow society, and poof! there it is. Saying this role is fit for a fighter alone is doing the game mechanics a huge injustice IMHO. Now applying this concept across the board, Underdark Adventures shines. You have a small PrC package that completely discerns the character from the run of the mill and average. The House Swordmaster, very cool. The Surface Raider, which before seeing this PrC I'd have written off as a Ranger. The PrC however makes it more than being a ranger. And the House Avenger, how can this not be cool?!

Both books are cool, but the WotC gives me only the tongue tip taste of what I want.