TSR Q&A with Gary Gygax

Col_Pladoh said:

Ho S'mon

I didn't know, or at least don't recall, JRRT using the term "hobgoblin" in his novels.

If he too called larger goblins "hobgoblins," I am quite surprised, as the "hob" prefix in folklore indicates a smaller version of something.

As I stated, I needed a name for a mumanoid larger than a goblin, that race having been detailed already, so I bit the bullet and used the namefor a smaller version of a goblin for a larger humanoid race in AD&D. If tolkien did the same for whatever reasons he had, then it is coincidence.

Cheers,
Gary

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Hi Gary - sorry to be sceptical, but are you sure you didn't read The Hobbit and just don't remember? AIR hobgoblins are only mentioned in the Battle of Five Armies section, as forming the Goblin King's bodyguard. It might have been an unconscious thing, but I do very much get the impression that D&D's goblins & hobgoblins are based off the ones in The Hobbit, and D&D's orcs are based off orcs in Lord of the Rings (rather than Celtic mythology, say), so in essence all 3 are the same monster. Likewise D&D's dwarves' attributes seem more directly akin to Tolkien's dwarves than most mythological representations, and D&D elves likewise. And halflings, of course (although Tolkien didn't invent 'hobbit', despite what his estate claims).

Of the D&D Player-Character races, half-orcs are perhaps the least Tolkienesque in that the ones hinted at in LOTR seem to be sly, sneaky infiltrators rather than big dumb lunks, although I think he does have it that the big Uruk Hai/hobgoblins are the result of orc-human crossbreeding.

Gary,

I have a question that has long puzzled me. It's about PC's acquiring Magic-User spells. IN the DMG (p. 39) it states:

"Naturally, magic-user player characters will do their utmost to acquire books of spells and scrolls in order to complete their own spell books. To those acquired, the magic-user will add 1 (and ONLY 1) spell when he or she actually gains an experience level (q.v.). Therefore, most will be frantically attempting to purchase or cozen spells from non-player character magic-users, or even from other player character magic-users."

OK, here's my question. When you say: "To those acquired, the magic-user will add 1 (and ONLY 1) spell when he or she actually gains an experience level." do you mean that the PC mage AUTOMATICALLY gains a new spell in their spell book whenever the rise in levels? For example, if my M-U is going from 1st to 2nd level do I get to add a brand new spell to my spell book even if I did NOT find a scroll or spell book in the dungeon I just explored?

If this is, in fact, the case then how should you handle it when a M-U goes up levels and gets the ability to cast a spell of a new level AND gains the ability to cast more spells in a level in which he's already proficient? For example, my M-U goes from 6th level to 7th level and is now able to cast 4th level spells AND gains an additional 2nd level spell.

Sorry for asking such an involved question, but you have no idea how long I've tried to figure this one out! BUt since I found this site I figured I may as well go straight to the horse's mouth (so to speak).

Thanks in advance!

Gray Mouser

S'mon said:

Hi Gary - sorry to be sceptical, but are you sure you didn't read The Hobbit and just don't remember? AIR hobgoblins are only mentioned in the Battle of Five Armies section, as forming the Goblin King's bodyguard.

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As a matter of fact I don't recall reading nything about hobgoblins in The Hobbit, or I'd have said so. As i have mentioned twice not, "hob" is a prefix indicating small or little, and disliked using it for the fourth in the humanoid races I was ranking--kobolds, goblins, orcs, hobgoblins, gnolls, bugbears, ogres, trolls, giants--but goblin state had been established before I set about that hierarchy.

It might have been an unconscious thing, but I do very much get the impression that D&D's goblins & hobgoblins are based off the ones in The Hobbit, and D&D's orcs are based off orcs in Lord of the Rings (rather than Celtic mythology, say), so in essence all 3 are the same monster. Likewise D&D's dwarves' attributes seem more directly akin to Tolkien's dwarves than most mythological representations, and D&D elves likewise. And halflings, of course (although Tolkien didn't invent 'hobbit', despite what his estate claims).

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Of course I included names of humanoids that had been used in Tolkien's works. That was something done purpusefully in order to appeal to the JRRT fan base. however, goblin armies are hardly unique to his work. Those critters are written about a good deal in folklore and fairy tales. I believe that is why the Good Professor switched from goblin to "orc" so as to be more unique.

I'll wager you are sad about being able to find any mention of gnoll or bugbear in his writings, so you can point to them too, eh? Heh-heh-heh. This reminds me of the novice editor for a large NYC publisher who when appearing on a SF panel with me asked why I had "stolen dwarves from Tolkien." I set her straight by informing the not-well-read young lady that I had done my research and stolen them from Norse myth, the same source JRRT used

Anyway, it doesn't matter what goblin, hobgoblin, and orc are in JRRT'swriting, because they are different and not the same in D&D, are they not?

As for hobbit, I found a single reference to that name, sans any discriptive material. The hobbits of Tolkien's writing are indeed unique to his authorship. The D&D halflings are not nearly as unique, as they are meant to fill in for those gamers who admire hobbits.

Of the D&D Player-Character races, half-orcs are perhaps the least Tolkienesque in that the ones hinted at in LOTR seem to be sly, sneaky infiltrators rather than big dumb lunks, although I think he does have it that the big Uruk Hai/hobgoblins are the result of orc-human crossbreeding.

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That being the case, the proper term for such hybrids is half-hobgoblins, I suppose...

What about elves? The D&D elf has little of JRRT's elf in it. they are shorter and not at all special as he had therace.

Anyway, I have cleared up all such confusion in the LA RPG. Kobolds are tough and smart and good-looking in a devilish way. Hobgoblins are small and dangerous, goblins are bigger and more dangerous. Trolls are more like medieval trolls, turn to stone daylight. There are allsorts of elf-like races--alfs, lyfs, elfs, ilfs, and wylfs. Orgre are the baddest of regular giants--those of deital sorts not included, of course.

Cheers,
Gary

Gray Mouser said:

Gary,

I have a question that has long puzzled me. It's about PC's acquiring Magic-User spells. IN the DMG (p. 39) it states:

"Naturally, magic-user player characters will do their utmost to acquire books of spells and scrolls in order to complete their own spell books. To those acquired, the magic-user will add 1 (and ONLY 1) spell when he or she actually gains an experience level (q.v.). Therefore, most will be frantically attempting to purchase or cozen spells from non-player character magic-users, or even from other player character magic-users."

OK, here's my question. When you say: "To those acquired, the magic-user will add 1 (and ONLY 1) spell when he or she actually gains an experience level." do you mean that the PC mage AUTOMATICALLY gains a new spell in their spell book whenever the rise in levels? For example, if my M-U is going from 1st to 2nd level do I get to add a brand new spell to my spell book even if I did NOT find a scroll or spell book in the dungeon I just explored?

If this is, in fact, the case then how should you handle it when a M-U goes up levels and gets the ability to cast a spell of a new level AND gains the ability to cast more spells in a level in which he's already proficient? For example, my M-U goes from 6th level to 7th level and is now able to cast 4th level spells AND gains an additional 2nd level spell.

Sorry for asking such an involved question, but you have no idea how long I've tried to figure this one out! BUt since I found this site I figured I may as well go straight to the horse's mouth (so to speak).

Thanks in advance!

Gray Mouser

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Howdy!

I left all of your message up here so as to refer to it as I respond.

The M-U going up a level is assumed to do so through training with a mage of higher level, or at worst the study of arcane lore. In this process the character gains knowledge of one new spell of the highest level he is able to cast.

If by advancement the character is also able to casr one or more lower level spells, he will have to make do with those he has in his spell books. He does not gain any new ones in those lower levels, only the capacity to memorize more of them. Thus the M-U character should always to be seeking the acquisition of spell books (likely with new and different spells recorded therein) or else scrolls with spells on them that he can record into his library.

Cheers,
Gary

Col_Pladoh said:

Howdy!

I left all of your message up here so as to refer to it as I respond.

The M-U going up a level is assumed to do so through training with a mage of higher level, or at worst the study of arcane lore. In this process the character gains knowledge of one new spell of the highest level he is able to cast.

If by advancement the character is also able to casr one or more lower level spells, he will have to make do with those he has in his spell books. He does not gain any new ones in those lower levels, only the capacity to memorize more of them. Thus the M-U character should always to be seeking the acquisition of spell books (likely with new and different spells recorded therein) or else scrolls with spells on them that he can record into his library.

Cheers,
Gary

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Gary,

Thanks so much for answering my question! That's basically what I thought, but I have debated this point with several people over the years and have played it where M-U's must find ALL of their spells and where they get a new spell when they gain the ability to cast higher level spells (the way you've described above). I'm just glad to have gotten a definitive answer.

Thanks again!

Gray Mouser

Gray Mouser said:

Gary,

Thanks so much for answering my question! ...

Thanks again!

Gray Mouser

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Happy to have been of service, Gray mouser

While I can't berate DMs who play differently, the DMG does set forth the basic guidelines in regard to acquisition of new spells. In retrospect I should have added the details of how the new spell added when increasing in level was gained, and that would have served well. Hindsight is so accurate...

Cheers,
Gary

Col_Pladoh said:

As a matter of fact I don't recall reading nything about hobgoblins in The Hobbit, or I'd have said so.

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The reference is a bit obscure. I don't think there's a reference in the Battle of the Five Armies but at one point Bilbo asks Gandalf why they don't just walk around Mirkwood. Gandalf replies that going to the south will find them in the region of the Necromancer and going north will bring them close to the Grey Mountains, which are "simply stiff with goblins, hobgoblins, and orcs of the worst description." No comment is made as to their size but their placement in between goblins and orcs might lead one to believe that they fall somewhere in the middle.

Of course I included names of humanoids that had been used in Tolkien's works. That was something done purpusefully in order to appeal to the JRRT fan base. however, goblin armies are hardly unique to his work. Those critters are written about a good deal in folklore and fairy tales. I believe that is why the Good Professor switched from goblin to "orc" so as to be more unique.

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Yes. "Orc" sounds much more serious than "goblin," don't you think? He even created a phony etymology for "orc."

Hi Gary!

An off-the-wall question here. A friend of mine just told me about an episode of Futurama where there was a superhero team of five people: Al Gore was the leader, with Nichelle Nichols, Stephen Hawking, you, and computer program Deep Blue, all operating out of a rental van.

My question is, did you do the voice of, well, you, in that episode?

Col_Pladoh said:

simply used "hobgoblin",,,even though its name indicated a smaller sort of goblin. In short, only the name was drawn from folklore, and the rest was made up out of whole cloth;

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Uh, uh, obviously, in this case, they were named "hob"goblins because they were tougher and meaner, just like hobnail boots are tougher than ordinary boots, regardless of what the "hob" in "hobnail" originally meant. (Do I get my No Prize?)

I come from a state where "South Bend" is at the northernmost bend of the Wabash river.

Howdy Dcas

dcas said:

The reference is a bit obscure. [snip]

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And from your reference it seems to be in the Trilogy, not The Hobbit. While i do forget a lot of things, having read the latter book first normally, then aloud two or three times for my children, I was rather taken aback that I hadn't recalled any reference to hobgoblins within its pages.

Yes. "Orc" sounds much more serious than "goblin," don't you think? He even created a phony etymology for "orc."

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Absolutely! The dictionary has an orc defined as a kind of ogre, and ogre is a seriously menacing word. In all events, gamers have taken to "orc" like ducks to water

Cheers,
Gary