Anyone got a decent build for a knife-throwing character?

Darklone

Registered User
Yeah, I'd start as halfling fighter (considering the short range, you'll need your hps in melee).

Ftr1: PBS, TWF.
Ftr1/Rog1: sneak attack
Ftr2/Rog1: Rapid Shot, Quickdraw (or Exo Weapon Prof Shuriken).

Next feats: Weapon Focus perhaps or Exo Weap Shuriken.
Next levels: Rogue till 3 or 4, then Fighter for Weapon Specialisation. Keep UMD maxxed and get a wand of Flame Arrows, Keen Edge and GMW... Shuriken are nice as soon as you can afford the feat because your damage relies more on PBS, WS and (perhaps) Favored Enemy. Sneak attack comes in handy, but don't rely on it.

Keep some throwing hammers around in case you meet skeletons.
 

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Li Shenron

Legend
I think any combination of Ftr/Rog would work. The more Ftr levels, the more feats to stack; the more Rog levels, the better sneak attack to offset for low weapon damage.

As a start, the only feats you shouldn't miss are Point Blank Shot and Far Shot. Quick Draw is also a must but you can wait until you get more attacks/rounds.

If you go the Ftr route, you will have a lot of feats to get and you should consider Precise Shot, Weapon Specialization (which requires Weapon Focus), and either Two-weapon Fighting or Rapid Shot (the first would also help in melee, but I think you may get only half Str bonus on the off-hand attack, not sure...).

If you go the Rog route, you should concentrate on how to get as many sneak attacks as you can, which means Improved Initiative first and foremost, but also Two-weapon Fighting/Rapid Shot. You can also afford a high Tumble rank to move out of melee safely and Sleight of Hand to hide your daggers. You may have low attack bonus, so Weapon Focus is more useful in this case.
 

Vaxalon

First Post
Dunjin said:
My problem is that there are tons of things I'd like the character to do, but not enough feat slots to cover it.

Hey, welcome to the world of DnD 3.X! That's exactly how the game was designed.

At every level, you've got X resources to spend, and at least 2X really good choices to spend them on. Trying to find an "optimal" build is fun, but in the end, the benefit of one good build over another is insignificant. Put the calculator down and play!
 

Gregor

First Post
Coredump said:
Sounds similar to what I am doing. But I went with a halfling. +1 to the throw, +1 to the dex attack, +1 to AC. yeah miss one feat, but the +2 to throw is better I think.

You could play as a strongheart halfing from FR and you get an extra feat just like a human. You'd just have to sacrifice the +1 to all saves that halflings get.

Cheers,
 

Gaiden

Explorer
Dunjin said:
I'm thinking about building a knife-throwing character based on speed and agility. My problem is that there are tons of things I'd like the character to do, but not enough feat slots to cover it.

Feats I see as essential:
Quick Draw
Point-Blank Shot
Precise Shot
Weapon Finesse (Dagger)
Dodge
Mobility
Weapon Focus (Dagger)
Rapid Shot
Improved Initiative

The perfect build would seem to be some combination of fighter and monk, but you can't really combine monk without taking all those monk levels first. I was thinking rogue levels because of the sneak attack, Evasion, and skills like Escape Artist, Tumble, and Sleight of Hand.

I'm toying with builds, but I'm curious to see if anyone has one that has worked or they think might work. I know about the Master of Throwing or whatever, from Complete Warrior, and clearly that class is a target, but I don't have that here with me.

Definitely go with halfling. The +3 to hit they will get with thrown daggers more than compensates for the -1 dmg, reduced movement, and lack of a bonus feat. From a powergaming perspective your concept already is at a disadvantage because of the decrese in die type (d4's vs. d6s or a better critical range). You might as well take the smaller race that would have that as a penalty anyway.

I'd suggest the following feats:

Point Blank Shot
Rapid Shot
Precise Shot
Far Shot
Quickdraw

Far Shot, as was already mentioned, is critical considering the 10' range increment normal of a dagger. The rest of the feats are the bread and butter of any missile combatant (excluding quickdraw with projectile weapons of course)

I would stay away from Dodge and Mobility. You already have a relatively slow movement rate. Moreover, even if you went for spring attack, it seems kind of a waste considering you can convert between missile and melee fighing forms with daggers.

If you want melee capability with daggers as well, Weapon Finesse is a no brainer. However, the two weapon fighting feats are also going to be important. You are going to have to compensate for daggers having lower damage. The easiest way is to gain more attacks. The next thing to do is to add damage. As was already suggested, you can take Ranger for their favored enemy bonuses. However, I sort of agree with you that in descriptive terms that doesn't really match up to the mental image of the knife thrower. The fighter has weapon specialization. Combined with a greater number of attacks, that can really add up. There are also energy enhancements - the extra d6 damage is a great boost (think Taki in Soul Caliber with one enchanted with fire, and the other ice).

Perhaps the most obvious way to increase damage is with sneak attack. This is truly where knife throwing characters start to become dangerous. There are three ways to get this for your character concept - rogue, invisilbe blade PrC from CW, and the Ninja class in Rokugan. If you are using Rokugan material, also consider the feat in Secrets of the Ninja which increases dagger damage to d6 and improves the crit range by 1 (I forget the name) as well as the Scorpion technique feat which essentially gives you 1d6 SA dmg per time you take the feat (max = 5). The invisible blade is a perfect class because it combines good BAB with good SA progression. If you are getting sneak attack then I would also consider the feats - improved initiative, expert tactician (and combat reflexes), and flick of the wrist.
 

John Q. Mayhem

Explorer
In general I wouldn't advocate porting in feats, but Mighty Hurl from AU is nice for knife-fighters. +1 damage with thrown weapons and ignore the first range increment. Yeah, halfling is probably the optimal choice for race.
 

argo

First Post
I also vote for a halfling Ftr/Rog. Try this build: Ftr2/Rog4, take first level as Rog for the massive skills. Feats are

Point Blank Shot
Precise Shot
Quickdraw
Expertise
Improved Feint (if playing 3.0 get your DM to approve Quicker than the eye and replace Expertise with Improved Init)

So lets say you started with a 16 Dex (18 after adjustments). That means that at 6th level you attack at +12 for 1d4 + 2d6 + Str EVERY ROUND. Sure a fighter can do better but you also get all those skills to play with ;)

This build depends on Sneak Attack for damage so I don't recomend going after Wep Spec, just by going to Ftr4 you are trading 1d6 Sneak damage for 2 points of constant damage and that is a questionable trade IMO. You will also note that aquisition of Far Shot has been delayed, this is because you are usually going to be within 30 ft for your PBS and Sneak attack to apply so you can wait until level 9 for that one. Also, Improved Feint means no full round attacks so Rapid Shot has sliped as well. Look for Improved Init at 12 and Rapid Shot at 15 and you can probably drop at least one opponent in the first round of every combat.

Max out your Bluff of course and also Tumble, jump, and other "acrobat skills" as well as Hide and you will be a pint sized ball of death.
 

Celtavian

Dragon Lord
re

Noldor Elf said:
That can not be done without hoserules, because both Weapon Finesse and Weapon Focus require BAB: +1, which Rogue 1 does not have.

I was going off memory, so I probably bought something else to begin with.
 

Gaiden

Explorer
argo said:
So lets say you started with a 16 Dex (18 after adjustments). That means that at 6th level you attack at +12 for 1d4 + 2d6 + Str EVERY ROUND. Sure a fighter can do better but you also get all those skills to play with ;)

Let's presume you start with a Str of 14 (12 after penalty). Your average damage against an AC 20 opponent (reasonable average for opponents at 6th level) will be 8.365 (assuming weapons of at least masterwork quality). Not to be harsh, but this is utterly pitiful. Moreover, you won't have the hit points to stay in melee and even if you've flanked you still only get one attack.

For a knife thrower to be viable you MUST increase your number of attacks.
 

Ripper-nk

First Post
Best Progression of a Knife Trhrower I made:

3 Rogue
2 Fighter
5 Invisible Blade ( Complete Warrior)
10 Ninja (Rokugan Campaing)

________________________________

In lvl 20 he have:

10d6 sneak attack
INT in AC and INITIATIVE
BAse Attack +19
Uncanny Feint (Feint free action)
Bleeding Wound

________________________________
 

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