D&D 3E/3.5 Best Overall Fighter/Mage Prestige Class... 3.5

Rashak Mani

First Post
Just checked the Complete Warrior and I was wondering: Which Prestige Class overall makes for the most effective 3.5 Fighter/Mage style combo ?
(Emphasis in Fighting... with the magic used for defense or helping out combat ability mostly.)


Bladesinger seems strong... Spellsword basically gets spellcasting advancement at the cost of some fighter feats lost... others ?
 
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gfunk

First Post
I would have to say the Eldritch Knight. +1 BAB per level and 9/10 spellcasting progression is very strong. However, you may have to tinker around to get the best build for your buck.
 

Elder-Basilisk

First Post
It depends upon what you want to do.

If you want spellcasting capability, Eldritch Knight is the way to go.

If you want to be an armored warrior with a moderate command of magic, Spellsword is what the doctor ordered.

I haven't looked too much at the Complete Warrior Bladesinger but it looks pretty good too. However, it, again, focusses on a different kind of character--one who wields a sword and wears only light armor.

Based on your description, I'd recommend Spellsword. (Bladesinger if you want to be a nancy boy elf who dances barefoot in the grass as well as a fighter/wizard). An Eldritch Knight will necessarily be more spellcasting focussed as the spell progression forms a greater portion of his abilities (and the lesser hit points and saves make melee combat less attractive).
 

Pax

Banned
Banned
Anotehr good one would be the Thorn Knight of Neraka, from the Dragonlance Campaign Setting.10/10 spellcasting, 7/10 BAB (IOW +7 BAB at 10th level), reduces Arcane Failure % from armor by up to 20% (IOW, Mithril Full Plate would have only a 5% arcane spell failure ... plus however much from his shield, ofc), the ability to deliver touch spell through a melee weapon (gaining full melee weapon damage on top of the spell's effects), and a few divination-related abilities (including a Moment of Prescience effect, at any time of the day, with no pre-casting required), and a few other more minor benefits. ^_^

For the Exodus arena (see my SIG -- it's ECL 25), for a while I played around with a Fighter(1)/Wizard(5)/Eldritch Knight(9)/Thorn Knight(10). Neat concept, really. Very much a true 50/50 blending of Fighter and Wizard. ^_^ BAB (not counting epic bonus) of +16; 18 levels of spellcasting at 20th level (which would be Ftr(1)/Wiz(5)/Eld(4)/Thorn(10) ...) or 23 levels of it at 25th level; several very good, useful benefits on the side.

The only catch(es) being, you've GOT to be evil, and hail from the Dragonlance setting as well (unless your GM is happy enough to adapt the three Knight of Neraka PrCs to his or her campaign world).
 

Rashak Mani

First Post
As well as picking on prestige classes... I wonder how the changes in spells have affected the potential of the Fighter/Mage combination ?

My first take is the +4 AC Shield Spell vs the old +7 AC spell. Certainly bodes badly for wannabe warriors. The Haste not giving an extra action also seems to limit the use of multiple spells followed by multiple attacks.

Enlarge is nice... short duration of Bull Str is bad...

ALSO -> What spells work very well for the SpellSword ? Especially lower level ones... scorching ray ? MM ?
 
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Pax

Banned
Banned
The new haste is better for a fighter/mage than a straight mage, actually -- the extra attack is of more use if you've got a decent BAB already.
 

Elder-Basilisk

First Post
My own quick take:

Shield Changes: Fighter/Mage is no longer a high AC combination because of this change. The fighter/mage will generally have a comparable AC to a defensively oriented fighter if he has time to prepare (alter self) but will have a much lower AC in general. This means that he needs to get his defense elsewhere and be a more efficient damage-dealer.

Animal Buff changes: Fighter/mage's shouldn't bother with them anymore except as the prerequisites for item creation (which they now must make use of). The short duration means they must be cast during combat. . . and the fighter/mage will get more milage out of casting a scorching ray or magic missile spell with that standard action.

Power Attack changes: True Strike+two handed Power Attack is now an advantageous combo when the character has trouble hitting rather than just when it's almost impossible to hit normally.

False Life: Being core adds to the fighter/mage's hit points.

Ray of Enfeeblement: Now an excellent choice--especially in combination with the improved Trip feat. Also a very good spell of the Spellsword Channel.

Touch of Idiocy: Very good for the spellsword channel.

Enlarge Person: See Ray of Enfeeblement. Also good for armor-wearing fighter/wizards who want large size but still want to wear armor. Just be careful about the dex decrease. This is something that combat reflex based characters will need to account for since the reduced dexterity reduces the utility of combat reflexes, somewhat making up for the increase in reach granted by the size increase.

Haste: As a party buff spell, this is not (IMO) on the fighter/wizard's spell list any more unless he's more into helping the rest of his party than fighting himself. The use of the old haste was to enable him to finish buffing quickly (haste+shield/Greater Invis during round 1 then partial charge+attack in round 2 for instance) and to help boost his AC to stratospheric levels. The new haste doesn't do either.

Polymorph: Good for fighter/wizards who don't wear armor. Still, the duration makes it weaker than the 3.0 version.

Improved/Greater Invisibility: Imp Invis was good for short term scouting as well as combat. Gr. Ivis is just a combat spell.

Scorching Ray: A very good spell that takes advantage of the spellsword's higher attack bonus. Also very good for using in the spellsword channel (A fighter 2/Wizard 4/Spellsword 10 could have two empowered scorching rays channelled into his sword and unleash a quickened magic missile before his attack for a truly devastating single round attack--even better if he uses Arcane Strike on a 5th level spell for +5 to hit and +5d4 damage to every hit during the round (although that would pretty much tap the spellsword's high end magical ability out)).

Enervation: Very good for the high level spellsword channel.

Heroism/Greater Heroism: Very good spells. Fighter/wizards should pick these up at the first opportunity.

Magic Circle against alignment: Now a much more attractive spell since there are fewer other ways to boost AC. It's 10 min/level duration makes it much better than Prot Evil, etc for this purpose. And it also helps out your allies and hedges out summoned monsters (strictly side benefits but still well worth mentioning).

Tenser's Transformation: No longer useful to fighter/wizards. With Spellsword or Eldritch Knight levels, you won't be missing a whole lot of BAB anyway. And with the flat +6 to stats, you won't have a chance of improving upon your statboost items (especially since you now almost certainly have them). Is losing the ability to cast spells worth a minor BAB increase and some temp hit points. I don't think it is. (Especially when you could get the temp hit points with an empowered False Life or Maximized Vampiric Touch for the same or lower slot--and, in the case of False Life, without having to spend a combat action to benefit).

Greater Magic Weapon: By clvl 8, it's still worth it for an Eldritch Knight who relies upon multiple weapon (glaive, guisarm, flail, sword, etc as the need arises) and can't afford to have them all magically enhanced the way he'd like (although since a Spellsword gains fewer caster levels, it may never be worth it for him now).

Protection from Arrows: Even more campaign dependent. In most campaigns, it's now useless past 5th level or so since nearly all foes will have magic bows by then (although its greater duration makes it more useful before then). Before, it didn't quite keep pace with Greater Magic Weapon which made it useless against main-villain archers or archers with main-villain GMWs cast. Now, it's useless against anyone with a magic bow.

Rashak Mani said:
As well as picking on prestige classes... I wonder how the changes in spells have affected the potential of the Fighter/Mage combination ?

My first take is the +4 AC Shield Spell vs the old +7 AC spell. Certainly bodes badly for wannabe warriors. The Haste not giving an extra action also seems to limit the use of multiple spells followed by multiple attacks.

Enlarge is nice... short duration of Bull Str is bad...

ALSO -> What spells work very well for the SpellSword ? Especially lower level ones... scorching ray ? MM ?
 

sithramir

First Post
I would just like to note how I HATE the new bladesinger in Complete Warrior.
They removed the spells it gains to add EXISTING SPELLCASTING CLASS! SO my wiz 1/fighter 4 who joins it now gets jack :):):):) for spellcasting. It defeats the purpose of a pure fighter who just has a few bonus wizardly spells to help. Its basically a crappy eldritch knight with a few other bonus's which don't make up to it unless you go mostly wizard before joining bladesinger PrC. Which why would you not just go eldritch knight to gain the higher spellcasting.

I'm not saying it can't be a good mix still but it takes away from the "mostly fighter" side and can't compete with the 3.0 version of itself.
 

James McMurray

First Post
Protection from Arrows: Even more campaign dependent. In most campaigns, it's now useless past 5th level or so since nearly all foes will have magic bows by then (although its greater duration makes it more useful before then). Before, it didn't quite keep pace with Greater Magic Weapon which made it useless against main-villain archers or archers with main-villain GMWs cast. Now, it's useless against anyone with a magic bow.

Its actually only useless if they have magic arrows but other than that your points are valid.

Haste: As a party buff spell, this is not (IMO) on the fighter/wizard's spell list any more unless he's more into helping the rest of his party than fighting himself. The use of the old haste was to enable him to finish buffing quickly (haste+shield/Greater Invis during round 1 then partial charge+attack in round 2 for instance) and to help boost his AC to stratospheric levels. The new haste doesn't do either.

I have to disagree on this one. Haste, although not as broken as the 3.0 version, is still the Fighter / Mage's best friend. The plus to hit partially makes up for the loss of BAB, and the extra attack greatly makes up for the loss of BAB by giving you an extra chance to hit. The added speed and AC are also very useful. Add on to that the fact that it also helps out your allies and you've got yourself one really nice spell.
 

Rashak Mani

First Post
James McMurray said:
Its actually only useless if they have magic arrows but other than that your points are valid.



I have to disagree on this one. Haste, although not as broken as the 3.0 version, is still the Fighter / Mage's best friend. The plus to hit partially makes up for the loss of BAB, and the extra attack greatly makes up for the loss of BAB by giving you an extra chance to hit. The added speed and AC are also very useful. Add on to that the fact that it also helps out your allies and you've got yourself one really nice spell.

I think he meant the fighter part of the multi gains more than the Spellcaster part... casting 2 spells a round is way better for more Magic oriented Fighter/Mages.
 

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