Simon R Green

Has anyone read his Deathstalker books?

He's not the best author around, but I've enjoyed the Hawk and Fisher stories (with the exception of the chapters where they back up the SWAT team on the occult prisonbreak... blech!) and his standalone books.

The local libraries don't carry any of the Deathstalker books, though, so I have no idea if they're worth spending money on...

Any opinions?

-Hyp.

Yes, I've read them.

They're basically superhero/fantasy novels an SF veneer. They were quite readable, but - while I paid full price for them - I wouldn't recommend others to do the same. Look for second hand copies (ebay?) instead.

I'm of a mixed opinion on Simon Green's stuff. Bear in mind here that I've read just about everything of his (all of his Deathstalker books, except the latest which I just picked up; his first Nightside book; all of the Hawk & Fisher including the two Blue Moon books).

On the one hand, I absolutely love him as a world builder. He creates these lavish landscapes, full of history and organizations that are truly amazing. The various planets of the Deathstalker series, the Families that vie for control behind and in front of the scenes in that book, the wondrous city of Haven- all of these things are truly awesome. (For the record, I've incorporated many if not most aspects of these things in the Alphatian Empire of Mystara in my own campaigns).

On the other hand, his characters are bland ciphers at best, and one-dimensional at worst. If you removed the names from them, you'd be hard pressed to distinguish one character from another, both due to dialogue as well as due to the character's interests. For instance (and I'm not giving anything away about the series here) the character of Owen Deathstalker is first introduced as a historian, not a warrior. And that's it. That's his entire character note. For the rest of the series we see him functioning as a warrior, and never once does he make use of his historic knowledge (which should, given the nature of the series, come in pretty handy in a lot of places). It's hardly even referenced again at all, except once or twice to point out that, hey, he's a historian, not a warrior. Most of his characters are like that. He gives a description of them, and lets that stand for their personality, regardless of their actual actions in the books. Hawk and Fisher were rather like that, too- they didn't seem to me to have distinguishable character traits- both bad cops.

That being said, I think you could do worse than to read the Deathstalker series. As I said, world wise, it's wonderfully rich and detailed, and may prompt you to come up with ideas for your campaigns (as it did me). Character wise, eh. There are certainly some memorable characters (Valentine Wolfe is a particularly memorable and devious one, and one of the few really rich ones). Probably the best Deathstalker book is the one that is a compilation of three short stories (Twilight of the Empire), and relates to the ongoing Deathstalker saga, even though it mostly takes place prior to the Deathstalker series. Can't recall if there are any real spoilers for the series in there (some of it was written before, I think) so you might want to start out with that one.

On another note, the first Nightside story features the single best written and developed protagonist of any of Green's stories that I've read, and I'm hoping the second one continues that trend, so maybe he's been working on his character development?

Hope this helps.

Cthulhudrew said:

On another note, the first Nightside story features the single best written and developed protagonist of any of Green's stories that I've read, and I'm hoping the second one continues that trend, so maybe he's been working on his character development?

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I'm halfway through Something from the Nightside at the moment, which is what reminded me that I've been meaning to solicit opinions on Deathstalker.

I really like Hawk and Fisher, and Haven in general, and the Street of Gods in particular. I can certainly imagine incorporating Haven into a campaign... but I think the campaign world would have to be designed from the outset with the expectation that something like the Street of Gods will exist. I don't think you could just throw Haven into any old setting and have it work.

But yeah - thanks, both of you. That gives me a better idea

-Hyp.

Cthulhudrew said:

I'm of a mixed opinion on Simon Green's stuff. Bear in mind here that I've read just about everything of his (all of his Deathstalker books, except the latest which I just picked up; his first Nightside book; all of the Hawk & Fisher including the two Blue Moon books).

Click to expand...

How about the singletons like Blood and Honour and Shadow's Fall?

It's been a while since I read either, but both were decent reads...

-Hyp.

These books sound interesting. Can you give me some more info on the setting, plot, magic system without giving any spoilers away?

Well, the Hawk and Fisher stories are set in the City of Haven.

Hawk and Fisher are Haven City Guards, although the way the stories are written, it's almost an HCPD. They have a couple of reputations; firstly, they're the only honest guards in Haven, and secondly, they're the most violent.

Because they don't tend to play by the political 'rules', they're usually in the bad graces of the brass, and tend to end up with all the worst assignments.

The setting is high magic - a couple of the stories have incidents like the dockworkers going on strike, and an importer bringing in an army of zombies to work the docks instead, or a wizard rigging an election by charming everyone in the city, etc. The Guard Dispatch Sorcerer contacts Guards telepathically, like a police radio dispatcher in the real world. When things get really rough, they call in the Special Wizardry And Tactics team.

The magic system isn't very well defined, since the main characters aren't mages... but basically, powerful wizards can do pretty much anything. However, there are a whole lot of supernatural creatures in the world as well, so there's no guarantee a wizard is the toughest creature around. There are also references to wizards gaining a whole lot more power via captive demons etc. One wizard made his reputation by walking into the very, very worst part of Haven one night. There was lots of flahsing lights and screaming. And when he walked out the next day, all the thugs and lowlives and criminals were dead.

And then you've got the Street of Gods, which is the only place in Haven that any place of worship is allowed. The Street of Gods has temples and shrines to real gods, bizarre extradimensional creatures that are worshipped as gods, bizarre extradimensional creatures that used to be worshipped as gods, and all sorts of weirdness. The Street of Gods is cool

Um. Cthulhudrew? Anything else you'd say about Haven?

-Hyp.

I enjoy the Deathstaker stories, found them fun and quick reads that did leave me wanting more. Did feel in the later books it lost some elements but some great ideas to steal for games , plots were standard, combat descrition fair, characters interesting.

Hawk and Fisher are wonderful stories, Haven is quite the city, loved the Lich that stayed in the ice room to prevent rotting.

Simon writes with a bit of humor and is light-hearted which adds thought to his characters and generates very interesting worlds.

Picked up the Guards of Haven book which has three Haven stories in one.

Pretty cool so far. I see what you mean about the one-dimensional characters, but I'm not too picky as far as that stuff goes. I like cool detailed settings and action, and as long as the book is an enjoyable read I don't really dissect the plot and characterization.

Thanks for introducing me to Simon Green.

Originally posted by Hypersmurf
How about the singletons like Blood and Honour and Shadow's Fall?
It's been a while since I read either, but both were decent reads...

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I've never read them or even heard of them, until now, actually. Thanks for mentioning them- I'll have to try and keep an eye out.

Another one that I've seen, but haven't read is something like "Blood and Wine and Roses" or something like that? It's got what looks to be a cyberpunk/Shadowrun style to it... which doesn't really appeal to me, but maybe I'll give it a look-see when I'm done with the pile of books I'm currently working on.