Spell that makes a summoned creature "permanent"

Altamont Ravenard · Jan 9, 2004

Hello all,

I'm planning on starting a campaign in an isolated city (isolated from its surroundings because they are quite dangerous), but one of the problems I have to deal with is the availability of food.

I was thinking that the wizards / clerics / druids in the city could have invented a spell that makes summoned creatures "permanent" (so when they die, their corpse stays). Of course, to limit abuse, the spell could be made so that it simply states that the corpse of a summoned creature who is killed does not disappear.

Would such a spell be too powerful for 1st level, especially compared to Create Food and Water?

Thougts and comments appreciated.

AR

Crothian · Jan 9, 2004

Why not just use lower or higher versions of create food and water?

Zad · Jan 9, 2004

My spidey-sense is tingling wildly right now. I think there's a huge abuse potential there but I'd have to dig around to see where it is. Probably something valuable on a high level monster as a body part or something.

If you do it, then the way I would suggest is having the "enduring corpse" spell, and only have it work on Summon Monster I spells. That solves your ecosystem problem without opening a can of worms.

Of course you could just as easily solve it with caverns of mushrooms or underground pools with seaweed or something. Opens up adventure possibilities too.

LightPhoenix · Jan 9, 2004

Personally I think Create Food & Water is a little underpowered for a third level spell anyway. You could just house rule it as a 1st or 2nd level spell for the purposes of your campaign.

What size city are we talking about here? More importantly, what type of campaign are you looking to run, magic-wise? You're going to hit a barrier with spellcasters as far as how much they're going to be able to provide. Even so, it sets a precedent for a high-magic setting regardless of your preference. After all, if they rely on spells for food and water daily, why not other things as well?

Take a large town, according to the DMG (2000-5000 people). Your highest level Cleric is 9th (the only class capable of casting CF&W). That's one 9th-level, 2 5th, 4 3rd, and 8 1st (again, going by DMG). That's only 5 to possibly 8 CF&W castings per day (3+1+1, plus 1 each for a 16+ Wisdom). Assuming 8 castings, that's only 24 people fed.

Assuming CF&W is 2nd level (or an equivalent spell), that's still only 12-19 castings. Assuming it's 1st (or equivalent) that's 24-39 castings. Not nearly enough to account for a large town. Wands are straight out - aside from cost issues, the cost/benefit ratio is way too low.

The same applies to Summon Monster I if you use that to create food - 24-39 castings a day is pitifully low for any town. Assuming you summon something that can feed 10 people in a day. That's still only 390 people fed daily at most. And that's not even taking into account casting a second spell to make the corpse stay - that reduces you to 190 people fed per day!

So realistically (or as realistically as possible, given we're talking about magic) using magic as a source of food just doesn't work at all for all but the smallest towns, which would have to have a disproportionate number of clerics or wizards (depending on what route you take) to feed people.

Sir Brennen · Jan 9, 2004

Although I'm not always comfortable with their idea of balance, Mongoose Publishing Encylopedia Arcana: Conjuration book might have some useful ideas. There are some spells which allow a summoned creature to hang around indefinitely, making them more like animal companions, but there is an XP cost involved.

But I don't think that's neccessarily what you're going for. If the intent is to use these corpses for food, there's a couple of ideas to consider.

Since most Summon Monster spells call outsiders of some kind, one has to wonder about their nutritional value. You could rule that the flesh of a single celestial creature can feed (HDx10) people (using small portions), and those people wouldn't need to eat again for another week! This would overcome the "real world" limitations of CF&W.

Conversely, eating the flesh of fiendish creatures might provide the same benefit, but those desperate enough to do so are striken with a horrible plague.

And if creatures are being summoned and not returned to their plane of origin, might the powers of those planes want someone to investigate? (Enter the PCs.)

What else might someone use the corpse of summoned creatures for? How about an easy source of power components? Wings from a celestial hawk, for example, might allow "free" meta-magics on spells like feather-fall, levitate or fly. Again, if arcane spellcasters start abusing their access to extra-planar creatures, someone might take notice.

Just some thoughts.

Vlos · Jan 9, 2004

There are some cool campaign things you could do.

As stated above, weird natural food sources, which could have plot hooks or adventures in of themselves. Even though the mushrooms grow in the caves, there are creatures that also like to eat them because of the scarcity of food.

Another one, taken from a movie (time machine). There are no "old" people in the city. Why? because they are "recycled". This could be by the city itself or by an evil race nearby that then leaves "good" food for the people of the city in exchange for the "sacrifices".

A great artifact, left by the city founders, which creates a supply of food for the city. The problem is that the cities population now exceeds the food produced by the artifact. Or it has become tainted by the surrounding evil and needs to be fixed.

Just some thoughts as for other sources of food.

As for the spell. Yes I can easily see it being perverted. I would. Summon a demon, lots of spell components there. Sumon a Xorn. These things eat gems for a living. They are bound to have some in their tummies when summoned. Also what about other types of creatures. Fire Elementals. What happens when they die?