Fantasy RPG: GURPS or D&D?

Ok, I posted this in a couple of places and got the most response at rpg.net. I've was rather surprised, however, that almost every response was pro-GURPS over D&D. Just curious if any of the folks here have played both systems and can offer their opinions.

->From RPG.NET post:
"Not sure if it's all of the LOTR movie-watching I've been doing of late, but my creative impulses have been on the Fantasy-RPG side of things lately. My Transhuman Space campaign is proceeding nicely and GURPS has been the best system I've ever used for Sci-Fi.

Now that I'm looking at also running a fantasy campaign, I'm torn between using GURPS for fantasy (my 1st attempt) or giving D&D 3.5 a try (have the books but haven't played an actual d20 game). I abandoned D&D long ago for more "realistic" systems but I'm wondering if D&D 3.5 is good enough to overlook any shortcomings in the realism area.

I love the idea of a fantasy campaign that would play to the gritty side of things, but I've pretty much decided that if I use GURPS that I'll be creating GURPS versions of D&D monsters, races, etc. and I'm not really looking forward to creating these things "from scratch" so to speak.

For people who have played both systems for fantasy campaigns, which did you like better and why? From what I can see, D&D seems to have caught up to GURPS somewhat in character creation flexibility, but combat still looks like suspension-of-disbelief will constantly be an issue as it was for me and my players in 1st and 2nd ed D&D.

Help!!"

re

That is the big difference between D&D and GURPS: campaign support. D&D has much better campaign support with magazines like Dungeon, loads of published adventures and monster source books, and many different campaign worlds. GURPS is inherently a better system with a more "realistic" feel to combat, but D&D is one of the best for running a heroic fantasy game where heros can take on multitudes of bad guys and come out on top.

I would go with D&D if you don't want to be bogged down with making all your own adventures, monsters, and magic items from scratch. I would go with GURPS if one day its going to bother you that your players can take down a horde of a thousand orcs while barely breaking a sweat.

Azgulor said:

Ok, I posted this in a couple of places and got the most response at rpg.net. I've was rather surprised, however, that almost every response was pro-GURPS over D&D.

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that's not suprising. the rpg.net forums are notoriously anti-D&D.

Just curious if any of the folks here have played both systems and can offer their opinions.

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i was a GURPShead for about 10 years; it was the only system i would play for a long time. now i pretty much only play D&D and other d20 games. so i'd say i've got a good amount of experience with both system.

I abandoned D&D long ago for more "realistic" systems but I'm wondering if D&D 3.5 is good enough to overlook any shortcomings in the realism area.

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well, the new D&D still isn't "realistic" but i don't consider that a shortcoming. in fact, it's the main reason why i left GURPS for d20 -- i didn't want to play "realistic" games any more. i think d20 does a better job than GURPS at adding the "fantastical" element, but GURPS is better at gritty realism.

I love the idea of a fantasy campaign that would play to the gritty side of things...

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there are things you can do to make d20 more gritty and "realistic," but if that's the main thing you want out of your fantasy campaign, you might just be better off sticking to GURPS.

For people who have played both systems for fantasy campaigns, which did you like better and why?

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well, i like d20 better, because it's a bit less rules-heavy than GURPS (IMO), and because it's less realistic. i like the PCs to be like action-movie heroes, capable of things normal people could only dream of. it's hard to do that in GURPS, but's it's really easy in d20. however, this sounds to be exactly what you're not looking for.

From what I can see, D&D seems to have caught up to GURPS somewhat in character creation flexibility...

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this is true.

...but combat still looks like suspension-of-disbelief will constantly be an issue as it was for me and my players in 1st and 2nd ed D&D.

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it's not as bad as previous editions. in fact, 3e D&D combat can get just as tactical and detailed as GURPS combat. however, the basic assumption is that the characters are fantastical heroes, not realistic combatants as in GURPS.

GURPS is inherently a better system

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Celtavian said:

I would go with D&D if you don't want to be bogged down with making all your own adventures, monsters, and magic items from scratch. I would go with GURPS if one day its going to bother you that your players can take down a horde of a thousand orcs while barely breaking a sweat.

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Well said.

Someone correctly pointed out RPG.net on the whole are notoriously anti-d20. Naturally, at this D&D site we have a different perspective

I think if the fantasy campaign is a break from what you normally do I would go ahead and play D&D for a while. The freshness and massive amount of campaign material available could really invigorate a new campaign. In my experience players who have been doing GURPs modern or space tend to get bored with powering down for fantasy.

The two support completely different campaign styles. GURPS characters can be pretty heroic, but there's a element of risk involved in any combat, especially in ones dealing with large numbers of opponents. You'd better use some tactics against numerically superior foes, or you are toast.

In D&D, on the other hand, characters will end up as virtual demi-gods at some point, and low-level opponents will not be able to touch them.

I should warn you, however, that it will be difficult to come up with adventures and challenges for high-level D&D characters - the PCs will be so powerful and have so many options that it is hard to "herd" them in any kind of direction. Not so with GURPS characters - it is always possible to challenge them by using a few more opponents and intelligent tactics on the side of their foes.

Oh, and IMO it is easier to "stat out" enemies in GURPS as well - you just have to give them the four attributes , a weapon skill, and weapons and armor. No fiddling around with feats, other combat-related skills, hit points, class and prestige class abilities, and so on...

Both games have their niches. It depends on what you prefer...

The only good thing about the RPG.net forums, they make good cannon fodder.

Admittedly I'm an old school d20 guy, but come on. Realism? IN a GAME?! Sure it works for computers but there's a reason for it. You got visuals and you don't have to smell the other guy's BO. In any case it's your call man what you want. I'd just hold everything those RPG.net people say with a grain of salt. If I remember correctly not more than 3-4 years ago most were DEAD set against a Live action LoTR.

Jürgen Hubert said:

Oh, and IMO it is easier to "stat out" enemies in GURPS as well - you just have to give them the four attributes , a weapon skill, and weapons and armor. No fiddling around with feats, other combat-related skills, hit points, class and prestige class abilities, and so on...

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that can be both a positive and a negative. it's faster, surely, but an NPC with nothing but the four stats, a weapon skill, and some equipment is going to be a bit bland, isn't he? similarly, i could make d20 NPC stats that were nothing more than hit points, an attack bonus, and some equipment and i've have the same amount of detail as your GURPS NPC, in the same amount of time.

OTOH, i've found i can churn out d20 stat blocks pretty quickly, especially for cannon fodder-type NPCs -- even up to 7th-8th level it doesn't take me more than a minute or two. a fully tricked out 75- to 100-point GURPS NPC can take longer than that.

Both games have their niches. It depends on what you prefer...

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well said, and ultimately the only deciding factor.

Someone correctly pointed out RPG.net on the whole are notoriously anti-d20. Naturally, at this D&D site we have a different perspective

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Dirigible said:

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