WoR - Races - Evolution vs. Deity Created

MatrexsVigil · Jan 9, 2004

Hi folks!

For the World of Ro, I'm debating on how much 'evolutional' realism I should worry about when detailing and stating the races. As races created directly by their patron god, how much biological detail should I go into?

-P.C.

BiggusGeekus · Jan 9, 2004

"High fantasy"? None, unless you have a biology degree and a madding desire to use it.

Ron · Jan 9, 2004

BiggusGeekus said:
"High fantasy"? None, unless you have a biology degree and a madding desire to use it.

I have a biology degree and I see no point of trying to integrate evolution theory with high fantasy.

MatrexsVigil · Jan 9, 2004

My browser isn't the most reliable, so I apologize for the triple thread post.

To give an example of how biologically detailed I was talking about...

The Telek are a race of humanoid bird people who were created by the god of Commerce. In order to be useful to their deity, they were created to be fast runners who could keep up their speed for hours on end. Always darting from place to place, from village to city, they would never have anytime to properly lay eggs and incubate them like other birds. Instead, the females lay their egg and then put them in a pouch, much like a kangroo. When the egg was ready to hatch, the mother would stop just long enough to help the chick break free and strengthen their leg muscles. Then the baby would be back in the pouch, slowly becoming as strong as the adults with every passing day. Over time, the Telek fully integrated into urban society and accepted the use of magi-tech transportation. They still keep their chicks in pouches until they are almost a year old, not because they need to but because it's comforting and 'right'.

Too much thought into the real life logistics of such a traveling race or just common sense?

-P.C.

Mordane76 · Jan 9, 2004

I have most of a biology degree (and a psych degree as well), and the closest I ever came to integrating evolution into my homebrew was giving the Elder races a "ancestor" sort of animal, from which they 'slowly' evolved through magical intervention. To give true "depth" to evolutionary biology in a gaming world would be maddening, and probably not worth your time, especially if you want to progress along a different path -- if you decide to, oh, base life of silicon instead of carbon, we're talking a whole different kettle of fish.... or if another animal evolved to "human" sentience instead of apes, then we're talking a lot of probability.

In the end, though, I think it boils down to the differences of a red apple versus a green apple -- if a feline ancestor had been the predecessor of humanity, we'd all look different, but the evolutionary pressures of an Earth-like environment tend to produce the same or similar results. You'd have a feline looking creature with extensive cephalization (concentration of sensory organs in the encephalon, large forebrain development), the development of accurate binocular vision, the tendency towards bipedal movement, and the development of tools and other means to alter their environment.

Bendris Noulg · Jan 9, 2004

Ron said:
I have a biology degree and I see no point of trying to integrate evolution theory with high fantasy.

Necessary? No. But easily done. Shannara has a racial origin based on evolution, as does the Dark Sun setting (although Psionics and Magic were heavily influential on that evolution). My own setting has a concept of Bloodlines, with most races able to attribute its origins to one of three progenitor events (the "others" came from "elsewhere") that births the Elder Races, Humanity (which includes Dwarves, Halflings and Gnomes), and Demihumans (Lizardfolk, Minotaurs, Centaurs, Alaghi, etc.). The races that I categorized as Humanoids (note that these are "sagely" categories, not mechanical ones) are decended from Human or Demihuman stock but have been altered, changed or corrupted in some manner.

Does having such a backdrop make it less fantasy than one that is based on divine creation? Not really. Is it better? In the right settings, yes, but not always (perhaps, even, not often).

Liolel · Jan 9, 2004

Divine creation is much easier to use if you want unusual races. Thats its main advantage but it also leads to the gods being a strong force in the world which you may or may not want.

Evolution on the other hand leads to much more ordinary races. However it leads to certain adventure possibilities, like finding in a lost valley a ancient bestial version of a common race.

My advice for you is to consider the possibilities of each choice and choose which one you like the best.

Vaxalon · Jan 9, 2004

MatrexsVigil said:
As races created directly by their patron god, how much biological detail should I go into?

Theological detail would be more useful than biological detail.

The example you gave with the birds and the pouches is dandy.

Umbran · Jan 9, 2004

Cut and pasted from another of the sibling threads:

Well, here's the question for you - how long ago were the races created? Evolution is characterized by action on geologic timescales, not human timescales. If the races were created 100,000 years ago, there's not much (if any) need to deal with evolution. If they were created 100 million years ago, evolution becomes a big issue.

Ron · Jan 9, 2004

Umbran said:
Cut and pasted from another of the sibling threads:

Well, here's the question for you - how long ago were the races created? Evolution is characterized by action on geologic timescales, not human timescales. If the races were created 100,000 years ago, there's not much (if any) need to deal with evolution. If they were created 100 million years ago, evolution becomes a big issue.

Not only Umbran is right but also, going back to your example, it doesn't sounds credible to have an avian like species with the burden of bringing their juveniles while flying. I wouldn't buy it as a Sci-Fi scenario, but I have no problem with it being fantasy. My advise is to don't worry much with real science and develop your fantasy as you wish.