Sorcerer swapping spells through research.

Otterscrubber · Jan 10, 2004

I've been thinking of replacing a sorcerers' ability to change spells every even level from 4th on up in my campaign with the abiltiy to swap out spells by following the research guidelines given in the DMG. They could either swap out for an existing spell or create one of their own to use. This would simulate that even sorceres have an ability to teach themselves new spells, although at the cost of a spell they already know. I've never liked the idea that sorcerers had no academic ability in the realm of magic.

I know this encroaches somewhat on the territory of wizardry, but I'd like to get feedback if others think it is too useful for sorcerers. It still keeps them from being as versatile as wizards as such changes take thousands of gold and weeks of in game time to acomplish, not something that will be feasible in many situations. If it is overbalanced, could it be balanced by making it twice as costly and/or time consuming for sorcerers to make such changes or some other option?

Nightfall · Jan 10, 2004

I think all the sorcerers should take the Scion feat Bloodline of Power and then go Blessed of Mesos. Then we'll see what archmage wizards have to say to that!

Nifft · Jan 10, 2004

Otterscrubber said:
I've been thinking of replacing a sorcerers' ability to change spells every even level from 4th on up in my campaign with the abiltiy to swap out spells by following the research guidelines given in the DMG. They could either swap out for an existing spell or create one of their own to use.

I'd allow it, for the standard research price, but only once per level. Basically, they get something better (1/level vs. 1/2 levels) in trade for something worse (expensive vs. free).

-- N

Crothian · Jan 10, 2004

Nightfall said:
I think all the sorcerers should take the Scion feat Bloodline of Power and then go Blessed of Mesos. Then we'll see what archmage wizards have to say to that!

That's my Socerer in a heartbeat!!

Nightfall · Jan 10, 2004

Course it is. Everyone with half a brain and power hunger in them wants it.

Otterscrubber · Jan 10, 2004

Nifft said:
I'd allow it, for the standard research price, but only once per level. Basically, they get something better (1/level vs. 1/2 levels) in trade for something worse (expensive vs. free).

-- N

That sounds like a good compromise. Would you think it fair to allow a sorcerer to save up these changes or would he have to make the changes immediately upon levelling?

As for the other replies, I dont use hardly any splatbook or non core books for classes so I'm not sure what the feats/classes are that you are referring to. Sounds like a powerful combo though from the replies.

Nifft · Jan 11, 2004

Sure, I'd allow the Sorcerer to save them up, but the first one wouldn't come until level 3 or 4. I don't know how much downtime you have in your campaign, but in mine, it's often hard to find time to spend at a library or with a tutor.

Patronage is another cool thing. Have them seek out a dragon, do some quests for it, and then they can swap / learn a bunch of spells that are all themed according to the dragon's type or personality. Likewise for powerful outsiders.

-- N

Otterscrubber · Jan 11, 2004

Or how about even making it a feat that sorcerers/bards can get?

Arcane Meditations [METAMAGIC]
Pre-Req: ?
Benefit: With this feat an arcane caster who does not need to memorize spells can use their command of their inner power and spellcraft knowledge to learn or create new spells, replacing a spell already known. This can be done for spells one level below the highest level of spells known to the caster. For example a 10th level sorcerer (or 11th lvl Bard) could replace spells up to 4th level using this feat. To do so cost's 1000gp and one week of meditation/training per level of the new spell. At the end of this time the caster must make a spellcraft check equal to 10 + the level of the new spell. Failure results in loss of the time and money, but the attempt may be tried again. The new spell must replace a currently known spell of the same level that will no longer be useable (unless they spend the time and money to learn it again, replacing some other spell).

What would the pre-req's for a feat like this be?

Bendris Noulg · Jan 11, 2004

One thing I've been planning one doing (just haven't done yet for lack of need) is to chain-link spells through level progression (Monster Summoning is a good example of such a chain already in the rules). My rule would allow a Sorcerer to "upgrade" a spell when a higher level slot becomes available.

Ex:

Sorcerer with Monster Summoning III gains a 4th Level Spell Slot.

Sorcerer "upgrades" MS3 for MS4.

Sorcerer now has an open 3rd Level slot.

While simple, it does require the DM to determine the chains ahead of time.

Hmmm... Maybe I should start a thread while I'm thinking about it..?