Classes and Prestige Classes for a low magic setting

In this thread I asked what people thought about having all the PCs start as NPC classes. I got some good suggestions, and I'm in the process of tinkering with my idea, mostly to make these classes a pinch more powerful, and hence play-worthy.

But now I'm wondering about using the regular PC classes, Fighter, Wizard, Rogue, Cleric and the like, as Prestige Classes. The requirements I have in mind have less to do with skills and feats, and more to do with being invited to join an organization or something similar. So, let's say that a PC wanting to eventually become a fighter would try to catch the attention of the Order of the Silver Sword by performing deeds of valor and honor, or by doing them favors. A rogue might be made an offer he couldn't refuse to join the thieve's guild. A wizard might try to convince a crotchety old mage to take her on as an apprentice by bringing the old coot some rare spell components. And so on. In short, becoming a base class would be part of the campaign.

Here's what I'm wondering though. Prestige classes normally only have 5 or 10 levels. Should I rewrite the base classes to reflect this? Then too, others have suggested that the PC should lose all their hit dice, their BAB, their skills and so forth, from their NPC level(s). As a player I would hate that, and as a DM, I'm not sure it fits the concept I have in mind.

If it took 4 levels for the expert scribe to become a rogue, then he could only ever reach level 16 of rogue. It's worse for spellcasters. Let's say a character ended up as a 5th level adept before managing to find a wizard willing to teach her. That means that PC could only ever become a 15th level wizard, max. Of course, I did say I wanted the setting to be low magic, so maybe this is no bad thing. In fact, maybe the wizard class would need to be reworked somehow.

Anyway, thoughts on this idea? Comments? Rotten vegetables? Foul curses?

I'd say just use Midnight as a way to extrapolate such ideas. Course I also think if you don't have gods or remote gods, there should only be like ONE cleric every 5,000 miles in the land.

The idea I have in mind is to have literally thousands of small gods. You can worship them if you like, but they can't do much for you if you get more than a few hour's walk away from thier spring, or tree or boulder. The adept class has enough healing magic to suffice. I might eliminate the cleric class. None of my players ever want to play one, anyway.

They have no taste then. But yeah keeping adept classes is good. Another option, use Shaman as well. I'd say keep those as full core classes.

I don't think the base classes would need to be reworked in any way. You're going to want a cap on the more powerful supernatural stuff, so if they can't ever get the higher level powers.

If NPC levels are going to be the only ones taken outside of these organizations, I don't think it is a stretch to suggest that even after taking the PrC verisions of the normal classes, you might require PCs have access to masters more powerful than themselves.

So when the PC spellcaster has learned all he can from his sponser into the order of wizards can teach him (say his master was an Expert5/Wizard5) he might have to trek into the wilderness to find one of the old retired grand masters in order to advance past 5 wizard levels, while still being free to take expert levels on the way to brush up on his knowledge and spellcraft.

Hi Buttercup,

In short
Don't alter the NPC or PC Classes.

In Detail
I like the concept you are trying to engender - you have to work for the special stuff normal PC's have and usually take for granted. As such, everyone starts as either a warrior, adept, expert or aristocrat. What you will find is that the character's become quite skill focused - it's the one thing the Players have good control over. Obviously, this should then play a major part in the game - as well as killing things and mission goals.

The trick becomes keeping the Players aware of what class or classes they can level in. I suggest the following rules:

Rule 1
A character can level in expert or warrior at any time.
Note for Expert: The skills a character can go up in must make sense - no Craft (Armorsmithing) if the character has been nowhere near a smithy nor an Armorsmith to learn from. You can include an extra rule that you cannot surpass the skill points of the tutor for a taught skill.

In addition with feats, you must have been trained by someone who has this feat - you can make exceptions to certain generic feats such as Power Attack etc.

Rule 2
A Character must start as an Aristocrat or an Adept if they wish to add either of these. These cannot be multi-classed into at a latter stage.
Note: technically there are circumstances where you can break this rule but these are normally through significant events in game.

Rule 3
Progressing into the PC classes (borrowed from pdmiller's Beltratia website):

Change to: Time required:

Fighter 1 month (0 if character is a barbarian, ranger, paladin, warrior).
Barbarian 1 year, during which the player must abandon all trappings of civilisation (or 1 month if the character is a ranger or druid).
Ranger 3 months (0 if the character is a barbarian or druid)
Paladin 3 months (0 if the character is a cleric, 1 month for an Aristocrat ) – ex-paladins can return to paladinhood if their other class is a divine one (eg cleric, divine agent)
Personally, I'd put further restrictions on Paladinhood normally insisting on a level or two in Cleric first.
Monk 1 year (Less depending upon background)
Wizard 2 years (3 months for an Adept)
Sorcerer Player must begin as a sorcerer – cannot become one later in career. (You may want to retain this or allow an adept to progress instantly).
Rogue 1 month (0 if the character is a bard or expert with 8 or more common skills)
Bard 3 months (1 month if the character is a sorcerer or rogue or expert with appropriate skills)
Cleric 1 month (0 if the character is a paladin or an adept)
Druid 3 months (1 month if the character is a ranger or barbarian)

Prestige Class Special – dependant on class prerequisites.

You don't have to follow this to the letter. However, you work with the PC's to see in which direction they want to go and work with them from there. When you feel they have "earned" the right to a class, you quietly inform them of the option the next time they are approaching a new level.

Personally, I like this sort of play. It encourages good role-playing and restricts the power of the PCs which otherwise can quickly get out of hand in a balanced world. In a low power world, the simple rewards are appreciated more and every fighter does not have prodigious strength etc. Being accepted into an organization provides a greater sense of accomplishment than having yet another bonus on top of an already large bonus pile.

Post back your thoughts.

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise

about level caps to prevent incredible supernatural things...

I mentioned having level caps at one point in the house rules forum and it was suggested that every spellcasting level had to be balanced with a non-spellcasting level. This means that everyone will have some martial ability, and that there will be no chance at high level spells, which is just fine. PrC's that advance spellcasting could still count, or if a prestige class actually involves prestige, perhaps that is the only way to access higher level spells. This could include prestige classes which seem to be a natural emanation of ability rather than a group. Perhaps an eldritch knight's martial ability help them to understand the working of magic better. This does make it almost irresistable to pursue such a path, but these things could be addressed when the time comes.

in such a low magic setting, herbalism could be an appreciated addition. Especially with thousands of local gods that might provide help locating herbs in their vacinity.

I really like your ideas, and also definitely second the idea of allowing the shaman class.

~hf

I'd use d20 Modern to handle this kind of thing. It wouldn't take much work to retrofit some D&D feats in place of Modern feats where appropriate. It would give everyone neat talents to use without the problem of magic. Advanced classes map in pretty nicely too, and you could use prestige classes from the Urban Arcana setting or (perhaps better flavour) from the lower magic shadow-fighting section whose name I can't recall at present.

Suggestions for PrCs:

Things like Weapon Master, Order of the Bow Initiate, Deepwood Sniper, Duelist, Lasher, Thief-Acrobat, Master of Chains, i.e. classes with a low complement of supernatural and spell-like abilities would be useful for a campaign like yours.

The best rule I've seen for maintaining a low magic setting is one that Col. Hardisson came up with for a LotR conversion, and I think it's brilliant because it minimizes the number of rules changes. It's this:

In order to take a level in a spell-using class, the character must have an equal or greater number of levels in a non-spellcasting class.

If you use this you may want to allow penalty-free multiclassing, but this system is tremendously elegant in its simplicity. If you want to become a spellcaster, whether adept or cleric or wizard, you'll need to also be an expert or rogue or fighter.

EDIT - Dang! Handforged beat me to it. Sorry for missing that.