EDIT - Looking for a few suggestions on a HOLY Warrior Build

jarlaxlecq said:

no thats not going to work, i most likely am going to be the tank of this group so i need to be able to take hits AND give them.

Click to expand...

IF you want to be the Tank of the group you got to be a fighter other fighting class are cool but they have to wear light armor to be fully effective and the paladin has to focus on so many abilities that you cannot devote alot of your ability points to STR and CON. Barbarian comes second with a lot of hit points. But what is 2 HP compared to being hit 20-25% less. The races I would go with are Dwarf (high con), 1/2 Orc (lost of damage), I would personaly go with dwarf to give you some flexibility on later level if you want to multiclass because having the absolute tank to protect the party is not an absolute necessity.

Again at low level (especially 1) I think a fighter with a THW or Board and sword is the only valid choice for a tank.

Dwarven Tank:

2nd Fighter/ xth Cleric/xth Hospitalier OR xth Warpriest.... a "Paladin", without the fuss.

And, never underestimate a straight Cleric's versatility in either frontline duty and/or spellcasting!

YMMV


Mike

mikebr99 said:

Dwarven Tank: ...

Click to expand...

darklone said:

Here I always like to suggest a dwarven mechanic.

Click to expand...

MorganKiller said:

...keep an eye on the possibility of playing a Dwarwen Defender.

Click to expand...

No love for the humans... tsk tsk. Don't get me wrong, I'm as much of a Con whore as the next guy, but the extra feat, favored class (any), skill points, and movement (relative to dwarf) on humans are great, especially if the pointbuy is higher than 30. After that, the racial stat bumps are less powerful. I'll post a suggested build soon.

Korak said:

No love for the humans... tsk tsk. Don't get me wrong, I'm as much of a Con whore as the next guy, but the extra feat, favored class (any), skill points, and movement (relative to dwarf) on humans are great, especially if the pointbuy is higher than 30. After that, the racial stat bumps are less powerful. I'll post a suggested build soon.

Click to expand...

But a "tank" requires heavy armor, which negates any speed bonus your "human" has over the Dwarf, especially after you load the guy up with treasure!

And being a fighter means the extra feat from human doesn't count for that much.


Mike

mikebr99 said:

But a "tank" requires heavy armor, which negates any speed bonus your "human" has over the Dwarf, especially after you load the guy up with treasure!

And being a fighter means the extra feat from human doesn't count for that much.


Mike

Click to expand...

I'm actually looking into a Barbarian, for the Hit points and the rage. Maybe with w few level of Fighter for feats. Human (i just don't like dwarf and am worried about my DM's role playing reprocusions of being Half Orc.) Any suggestions for leveling a barb to 10th level.

jarlaxlecq said:

I'm actually looking into a Barbarian, for the Hit points and the rage. Maybe with w few level of Fighter for feats. Human (i just don't like dwarf and am worried about my DM's role playing reprocusions of being Half Orc.) Any suggestions for leveling a barb to 10th level.

Click to expand...

Stats (32pt buy): Str16, Dex12, Con16, Int12, Wis12, Cha8

At level 4, bump Int, at level 8 and 12, bump Str

Levels 1-12
Bbn1,Ftr1,Clr(worship Kord)1,Rng1,Bbn2,Ftr2,Clr2,Rng2,Ftr3,Rng3,Ftr4,Templar1

Feats:
Human Weapon Focus (Greatsword)
1st Power Attack
Ftr1 Cleave
3rd Improved Unarmed Strike
Rng1 Track
6th Extra Rage
Ftr2 Combat Expertise
Rng2 Rapid Shot (Only works in light armor, but it's free)
9th Improved Grapple
Rng3 Endurance
Ftr4 Improved Trip
12th Improved Disarm
Temp1 Weapon Specialization (Greatsword)

Class Abilities:
Strength Domain
Luck Domain
Fast Movement
Rage (3/day)
Uncanny Dodge
Mettle

Equipment:
11,500 Mithril Fullplate+1
9,000 Cloak of Resistance +3
16,000 Belt of Giant Strength +4
16,000 Gloves of Dexterity +4
4,000 Amulet of Health +2
9,150 Animated Heavy Shield +1
4,000 Pearl of Power 1 x4 (for casting enlarge person each combat)
2,000 Heward's Handy Haversack
8,300 Ghost Touch Greatsword +1 (or frost/shock/bane, your pick)
1,200 Mighty Composite Longbow (+6str)

Important bits adjusted for equipment:
HP:122
AC:25 (29 if you get 2 magic vestment casts from your party)
F: 22
R: 9
W: 11
BA: 11
Attacks: +19/+14/+9 for 2d6+12 (3d6+13 when enlarged) (you can add 3 to the hit and damage mod with a GMW from the party and a divine favor from yourself)
Grapple: 21 (26 when enlarged)
Trip: 10 (15 when enlarged)

Other things to think about (boots of speed, pearls of power for your party cleric/wiz to save his spell slots when giving you GMW and MV for your greatsword, shield, and armor)

I don't have the starting wealth for a 12th level char in front of me, but I think that should be in the ballpark. You can start out wearing a chain shirt until you can afford a good breastplate, or fullplate. But, don't buy the fullplate until you can afford mithril (keep your barbarian abilities). As for advancement from here. You'll need one more cleric level to avoid a multiclass penalty if you want to advance barbarian further. So, one cleric level and 7 more barbarian levels will work, but you can do better. You can advance fighter levels for the feats, or look into other prestige classes from here.

The concept here is that you can enlarge (lvl 1 strength domain spell) yourself for extra reach and grapple/trip bonus when needed, and can rage for further strength (though you can't cast while raging of course). You also have a limited ability to heal yourself, and access to many magic items like cure light sticks. Your low wisdom doesn't really matter, because you won't be casting spells on anyone but yourself. Sprinkle in a little shield of faith or divine favor if you have a round or two to buff.

If you will be the only melee in the party, I would switch out Combat Expertise/Imp Trip/Imp Disarm for Dodge/Mobility/Spring Attack so you can avoid the full attack on the big nasties.

If you're looking for a melee tank, some strong options are:

Cleric - Their AC should be at least equal to a fighter's AC and their combat ability, when fully prepared, often exceeds a fighter's abilities.

Paladin - A paladin using the divine feats from CW is very strong. His incredible saving throws make him hard to take down.

Dwarven Fighter/Devoted Defender - This prestige class is often overlooked. It shouldn't be ignored. A dwarven defender is one of the best front line fighters there is, especially when he can make the enemy come to him. His early fighter levels will get a good collection of melee feats.

Monk - if you have great starting stats, a monk can be a very effective front line fighter. Find or buy a wand of mage armor to really get the AC going at an early level. By the time the wand runs out, you'll have decent bracers.

If you will be the only melee in the party, I would switch out Combat Expertise/Imp Trip/Imp Disarm for Dodge/Mobility/Spring Attack so you can avoid the full attack on the big nasties.

Click to expand...

When the only melee character in he party avoids the foe's full attacks, the remainder of the party suffers them. Your barbarian will be much better at srving that than the rogue or the wizard. When there's only one party member on the front lines, his job is generally to remain in that front line.

I have a great time playing a fighter - he's maximum defensive. My original concept was reach fighter with a glaive and medium armour (breastplate natch) so I gave him 18 str, 16 dex, 16 con, 13 int, 10 wis, and 13 cha...

Second adventure? I found a magic sword, switched over to using it, now I play the sword and board style. Full plate armour seemed a waste to begin with, but I got it made out of mithril later, so I get the full dex bonus, very nice. I also picked up a tower shield and a cloak of resistance.

His name is Gort, and he's VERY hard. With magic items, he's got 38 AC at level 15, and some very nice saves, (took all the save increasing feats) and is nearly at 200 hitpoints. (177 to be precise)

It's great fun, you can shout at dragons and expect to live, I love it. Of course, what every good fighter needs is a great cleric behind him.

Oh, and as far as race goes? Human all the way. Not for mechanics, clearly dwarves make the best fighters from a munching point of view. But I just like the idea of being the ordinary guy, taking on a world of hell. I usually play the "average line soldier who becomes a hero".

And the best part? One of our players is a budding comic artist, and does a comic of our campaign! I'm a star!

The comic's at http://www.drunkduck.com/Darken/ if you're interested. Oh, and in case you're wondering, I ended up with a prestige class for the hellfire stuff...

Despite your DM's rumblings, I would seriously consider the half-orc. Darkvision is cool, and they have a bonus to strength that should not be overlooked. Strength is like having weapon focus on all meelee weapons. I would also go fighter all the way. Barbarian is risky, since a calm emotions spell (among other things) can mess you up badly.

Max out strength, then con, then dex, then wis, then who cares. Take either ride, climb or jump for skills (max out one or evenly spread them). Accept the fact that you will get surprised in the first round and don't waste cross-class points in spot or listen.

Feats to consider: P. attack & cleave, w-focus greatsword (or exotic weapon bastard sword followed by weapon focus, if you like the shield thing), weapon specialization, improved sunder. Get a mighty composite bow set to your strength. Keep improving your strength. Another route is quickdraw and throw javelins, or take exotic weapon spiked chain (you won't get all the spiked chain feats, but reach is nice).

If your dm does the "many underlings rush you at once" thing, then great cleave can be good. Improved critical is nice. Especially if you get adamantium (sp?) weapons. If you use complete warrior, there are nice feats in there, including improved toughness.

But have fun, whatever you decide.