EDIT - Looking for a few suggestions on a HOLY Warrior Build

irdeggman · Feb 6, 2004

A dwarven barbarian at 1st level would help to eliminate the movement penalty for being a dwarf while maximizing hit points.

Switching to a fighter at 2nd level yields the fighter bonus feat and also allows the dwarf to be literate (one of those peculiar aspects of the illiterate flaw - if you change to a class than is not illiterate you suddenly become literate).

Since fighter is a dwarf's favored class then the only thing to keep track of is to ensure that the barbarian levels don't get too far off in case you want to add another class at some time.

3rd level barbarian - picks up uncanny dodge plus level feat

4th level fighter - another fighter bonus feat

With this type of build you pick up a feat at every level (through 4th) and have BAB increasing at every level with a good hit point mix. Also don't discount the dwarf's movement bonus (always 20 regardless of weight of load or armor) so when the character changes to wearing heavy armors he only loses his barbarian increased movement and will probably move as fast (if not faster) than anyone else in heavy armor.

Pick up a dwarven waraxe for a primary weapon with weapon focus, power attack and eventually specialization and use a cross bow as your ranged weapon. Pretty awesome tank type IMO.

DarkMaster · Feb 6, 2004

Darklone said:
Usually strength 14 is enough for a starting paladin with good Cha heading towards Divine Might.

Ok true,
but it you want to be a tank at low level why waste those precious point in charisma?

DarkMaster · Feb 6, 2004

irdeggman said:
Switching to a fighter at 2nd level yields the fighter bonus feat and also allows the dwarf to be literate (one of those peculiar aspects of the illiterate flaw - if you change to a class than is not illiterate you suddenly become literate).
.

Not sure about that, I don't allow it unless the player spend some skill points learning. I won't allow them to take Wizard for example until they learn how to read and write (2 skill points) and they can justify how to learned to cast spell all of a sudden.

There are exception, I allowed the barbarian in my group to take some ranger level without any question, he could have taken fighter level too without problem.

But he still doesn't know how to read and write and won't be able to use any skill based on the assumption that he possess this knowledge until he spent 2 skill points (to get 1 rank in a non core class skill (knowledge(language)).

Darklone · Feb 6, 2004

DarkMaster said:
Ok true, but it you want to be a tank at low level why waste those precious point in charisma?

A tank at low levels needs three things:
Saves, Hitpoints, AC.

A paladin with maxxed Charisma and Con second has all of these (with breastplate and large shield). High strength is not really worth it when he goes the sword&board fighting way, so a 12 might even be enough (as long as Charisma is at 18 and Con at around 16). Human starting feats: I suggest Power Attack and perhaps a Weapon Focus feat to hit ANYTHING.

If the Paladin wants to do some funny nice new thing, he should go for Dex 15 and use TWF combat with a heavy shield and a shortsword, later buffed up with Divine Might and Divine Shield.

DarkMaster · Feb 6, 2004

Darklone said:
A tank at low levels needs three things:
Saves, Hitpoints, AC.

A paladin with maxxed Charisma and Con second has all of these (with breastplate and large shield). High strength is not really worth it when he goes the sword&board fighting way, so a 12 might even be enough (as long as Charisma is at 18 and Con at around 16). Human starting feats: I suggest Power Attack and perhaps a Weapon Focus feat to hit ANYTHING.

If the Paladin wants to do some funny nice new thing, he should go for Dex 15 and use TWF combat with a heavy shield and a shortsword, later buffed up with Divine Might and Divine Shield.

If I was a player I would still prefer to have a 16-18 STR , 16-18 CON, fighter with Cleave feat that don't ask too much philiosophical question before destroying the enemy than the 12-14 STR, 16 CON, paladin always reminding me that there other way to solve conflict than using violence, and pretending to damage opponent.

Every single hit to a normal orc warrior should be a kill and potentally 2 kill with the cleave. Now your paladin with his/her longsword is having problem downing an orc on a single hit. The quicker your enemy goes down the higher are your survival chances. (Perhaps the 18 CHA 2nd level paladin can blind the enemy with his white shiny smile)

Don't get me wrong Paladin, Rangers and even Barbarian are interresting class but at low level in pure combat they are clearly less effective than the fighter.

To me low level tank == Fighter. The name of the class says it all.

jarlaxlecq · Feb 6, 2004

Ok when i get home i'm going to put together a character and submit it online, so you can tell me what you think.

Gaiden · Feb 7, 2004

To use the imagery, when I imagine tank, I imagine...well a tank - something that is big and tough and nigh indestructable. As Darklone points out, this requires HP's, AC, and SAVES. As I have seen time and time again, a buffed fighter or barbarian is great at dealing damage, but one hold person stops them dead in their tracks (pun intended).

A paladin with a high chr and con is the epitome of a tank. He has good hit points, the highest single-classed saves of any low-level character, and ought to have the best AC, except for a cleric. Divine might, more than compensates for a lower than average warrior strength (13 or 14) and divine shield makes the cleric look like the side of a barn.

Saves are campaign-dependent as it depends on the type of adversary you are facing and how often you face those type of foes. However, if you at all face magic users, those saves will be what distinguishes you from the other tank roles.

Darklone · Feb 7, 2004

My campaign was not very magic user heavy (the players are by farthe most powerful spellcasters group in the whole area) but yet the paladin of the group was always the last dudess standing. She had horribly good saves, con 15 and strength 11... even with a greatsword her AC was not one of the best ones (compared with halfing rogues, half orc sorcerer barbarians and other strange stuff such as dwarven ftr wizards).

Sure, the damage output of her was negligible compared to a raging barbarian, but more than once the barbarian ran in fear, the fighter succumbed to a Hold Person or simply got downed faster because he was the bigger threat (and preferred to seek out the BBEGs) while the female paladin stood her ground in front of the spellcasters for round after round. I often had big and complicated battles with sometimes more than 100 opponents or participants... and IIRC the paladin was dropped only once in the whole campaign while the other melee monsters fell in every 2nd battle. Later the girl changed to sword & board and got even tougher. Less damage but her BAB caught up with the to hit of the strength cleric dudes and her armour was usually (unbuffed) the best in the group. And her saves... can't remember when she failed one.

jarlaxlecq · Feb 7, 2004

Ok Heres what i got so far, this is all pending DM approval:

Class: Paladin Lvl 1
Race: Aasimar
Age: 21
Sex: Male
Align: Lawful Good
Deity: Torm
Height: 5'10"
Weight: 192lbs
Speed : 30

Abilities
----------------
Str 15
Dex 14
Con 16
Int 13
Wis 12
Chr 19

( I used 4d6 rules for scores, they were probably the best rolls i've done, its a shame i cant roll like that at an acctual section

The scores are adjusted for the race)

Hp: 13

AC: 16

Skills
---------------
Diplomacy - 4
Handle Animal - 4
Ride - 4

Feat
--------------
Power Attack

Equipment
--------------
Bastard Sword
ScaleMail
Backpack
Bedroll
Flint and Steel
Torch
Holy Symbol of Torm
75GP

Abilities
-------------
Acid, Cold, Elec Resistance 5
Light 1/Day
+2 Spot and Listen
Darkvision 60
Smite Evil 1/Day
Aura of Good
Detect Evil

I plan to multiclass him with a few levels of Fighter for the Feats, (probably about 4 levels) Eventually plan on having him do Cavalier further down the line.
He'll uses a Bastard Sword for now with 2 hands eventually with the needed Feats he'll alternate as it becomes important for him to switch from one and two handed styles.

What do you think?

Darklone · Feb 8, 2004

Ask your DM for approval if you can multiclass freely with the paladin/ftr.

Aasimar was ECL+1, right?

EDIT - Looking for a few suggestions on a HOLY Warrior Build

irdeggman

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DarkMaster

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DarkMaster

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Darklone

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DarkMaster

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jarlaxlecq

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Gaiden

Explorer

Darklone

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jarlaxlecq

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Darklone

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