Full Round Casting Time vs AoO

Nail · Feb 5, 2004

Last night, the cleric in our game started casting Summon Monster III. Then a raging orc barbarian moved next to her. (He was interested in cutting her head off, BTW.) The orc barbarian had used a double move, had not charged, and so he had no normal attacks left.

As the DM, I wasn't sure if her casting caused an AoO. After all, the spell has a 1 round casting time, she was not casting defensively, and she was in his threatened area. All the players disagreed, saying that, although she was still casting, the majority of her casting was completed by the time he moved up.

Wha'cha think?

Li Shenron · Feb 5, 2004

I am sure there is a place in SRD that says that you provoke AoO ONLY at the beginning of your casting. For casting time of more than one round however this becomes more debatable...

Li Shenron · Feb 5, 2004

SRD said:
You only provoke attacks of opportunity when you begin casting a spell, even though you might continue casting for at least one full round. While casting a spell, you don’t threaten any squares around you.

The rules carefully avoid saying what happens if the casting time is 2 or more rounds, leaving us for a bloodlust debate...

Darklone · Feb 5, 2004

Problem is... the concentration check for damage taken while casting in this case IIRC.

billd91 · Feb 5, 2004

Nail said:
Last night, the cleric in our game started casting Summon Monster III. Then a raging orc barbarian moved next to her. (He was interested in cutting her head off, BTW.) The orc barbarian had used a double move, had not charged, and so he had no normal attacks left.

As the DM, I wasn't sure if her casting caused an AoO. After all, the spell has a 1 round casting time, she was not casting defensively, and she was in his threatened area. All the players disagreed, saying that, although she was still casting, the majority of her casting was completed by the time he moved up.

Wha'cha think?

It is also my understanding that the AoO comes when casting is started in a threatened zone, not if a threatened zone comes up to a caster already doing his thing. That barbarian should have either charged or used some other attack from range if he wanted to force the caster to make a damage-based Concentration check.
Thems the breaks.

DrSpunj · Feb 5, 2004

billd91 said:
It is also my understanding that the AoO comes when casting is started in a threatened zone, not if a threatened zone comes up to a caster already doing his thing. That barbarian should have either charged or used some other attack from range if he wanted to force the caster to make a damage-based Concentration check.
Thems the breaks.

I agree, but we didn't take time last night to look for an answer. Nail made a ruling and we went with it to speed up play.

BTW, billd91, good options, but we were fighting in a forest with lots of undergrowth that impeded movement, so charging and running were both out, and I don't remember Nail describing the mook Orcs having any ranged weapons, so that may not have been an option either.

While the encounter wasn't by any means a push over to begin with (it was an EL +2) I was very glad the Orcs were restricted from Charging by the undergrowth. Had they been able to close faster than they did, I'm certain we would not have all survived. As it was, none of us dropped, though my Archer and our Druid both came close (which I define as "one more attack from a Raging Barbarian Orc with a Great Axe").

Thanks.

DrSpunj

Nail · Feb 5, 2004

billd91 said:
That barbarian should have either charged or used some other attack from range if he wanted to force the caster to make a damage-based Concentration check.

The barbarian was moving thru heavy brush, thus charging was not possible. Sigh.

FYI: It was an EL 9 encounter (at night!): 3 5th level orcs, 6 1st level ones, all with PC classes. The party consisted of a Rgr 4, Rog 5, Clr5/Rog1, Wiz 6, Pal 4, & a Drd 6. That's APL of 5. With their stats and numbers (more than 4 characters), I'd bump that up by 2, I think, and say they are ~ APL 7.

Anyway, they won, rather handily. It was a challenge, but not nearly as much as I thought it would be.

Thanks for the help!

Nail · Feb 5, 2004

DrSpunj said:
I don't remember Nail describing the mook Orcs having any ranged weapons, so that may not have been an option either.

A few of the mooks had bows (long bows, not composite or mighty) but didn't use them.

Orc smash! Orc Bash!

DrSpunj · Feb 5, 2004

Nail said:
FYI: It was an EL 9 encounter (at night!): 3 5th level orcs, 6 1st level ones, all with PC classes. The party consisted of a Rgr 4, Rog 5, Clr5/Rog1, Wiz 6, Pal 4, & a Drd 6. That's APL of 5. With their stats and numbers (more than 4 characters), I'd bump that up by 2, I think, and say they are ~ APL 7.

Actually we're spread out a bit more than that, class-wise. The Rgr4 is actually a Rgr3/Wiz1 Archer, and the Rog5 is a Rog4/Sor1 (this is one of the Kobolds from my other thread). The Pal4 is also a Kobold, and he's our only true frontliner right now. So imagine our dismay as an APL 7 party coming up against melee thrashing machines where the rest of us are trying to hide behind the Kobold Pal4.

Thank goodness for the undergrowth!

Nail said:
Anyway, they won, rather handily. It was a challenge, but not nearly as much as I thought it would be.

Yeah, as I said before, no one dropped, but I think we used an appropriate amount of our resources facing a challenge of EL=APL+2. Our Wizard basically pulled the rest of us out of the fire with his AoE spells, and the undergrowth hindered one of their biggest advantages: moving fast to close within thrashing range.

Thanks.

DrSpunj

MichaelH · Feb 5, 2004

Nail said:
Last night, the cleric in our game started casting Summon Monster III. Then a raging orc barbarian moved next to her. (He was interested in cutting her head off, BTW.) The orc barbarian had used a double move, had not charged, and so he had no normal attacks left.

As the DM, I wasn't sure if her casting caused an AoO. After all, the spell has a 1 round casting time, she was not casting defensively, and she was in his threatened area. All the players disagreed, saying that, although she was still casting, the majority of her casting was completed by the time he moved up.

Wha'cha think?

No AoO for the orc, but it has nothing to do with the majority of her casting being completed. She must continue to concentrate, make the appropriate gestures, etc. until just before her action in the following round. This can be found in the PH, page 143, under Casting a Spell.

This can also be found in the PH, page 143, in that same section. "You only provoke attacks of opportunity when you begin casting a spell, even though you might continue casting for at least one full round." This is why the orc gets no AoO.