Technology

Greatfrito

First Post
Okay, I finally have a group at my disposal for DMing purposes and this means that besides having a near-constant group for playing, I also have a place to really playtest some of my ideas. I didn't think much of it until one of my players showed a lot of interest in introducing more of a technological slant to the world when I mentioned that I had half-writen various rules for firearms (not so much other technologies, 'cause let's face it, they're the coolest, and thus the first to get done). This made me think that should I be able to at least get some working rules in order, I would very much like to bring some of these technologies into the game.

My first question is thus:

Can anyone suggest a good source of firearms and other technologies that would go well with the standard DnD setting? I've heard mention of something called the Iron Kingdoms in passing many times, but never seen it specifically.

And then my second question - and the first for my next delve into these rules - is:

What level of technology could I reach before firearms would become far superior to normal weapons? And how can I balance firearms against typical weapons should I wish to make them better than "normal" weapons? If I am to make them more powerful, would a much greater crafting difficulty and consequently a much higher cost be enough of a balancing factor?

Anywho, I'm just starting on the idea again (this'll be my... third go at it...) but at least this time I can be confident that as long as I keep my game going, I'll have people willing to test/use the rules. Thanks.​
 

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Darklone

Registered User
First question: Yes, Iron Kingdoms. They have a free download pdf sheet on their homepage (Bastion Press?) with firearms rules.

2.:19th century cavalry still wore harnesses which were impenetrable to firearms (except cannons) for ranges of more than ~30 ft.
 

CombatWombat51

First Post
Greatfrito said:
Okay, I finally have a group at my disposal for DMing purposes and this means that besides having a near-constant group for playing, I also have a place to really playtest some of my ideas. I didn't think much of it until one of my players showed a lot of interest in introducing more of a technological slant to the world when I mentioned that I had half-writen various rules for firearms (not so much other technologies, 'cause let's face it, they're the coolest, and thus the first to get done). This made me think that should I be able to at least get some working rules in order, I would very much like to bring some of these technologies into the game.

My first question is thus:

Can anyone suggest a good source of firearms and other technologies that would go well with the standard DnD setting? I've heard mention of something called the Iron Kingdoms in passing many times, but never seen it specifically.

And then my second question - and the first for my next delve into these rules - is:

What level of technology could I reach before firearms would become far superior to normal weapons? And how can I balance firearms against typical weapons should I wish to make them better than "normal" weapons? If I am to make them more powerful, would a much greater crafting difficulty and consequently a much higher cost be enough of a balancing factor?

Anywho, I'm just starting on the idea again (this'll be my... third go at it...) but at least this time I can be confident that as long as I keep my game going, I'll have people willing to test/use the rules. Thanks.​


Barsoomcore's campaign site has good stuff on two guns. How you stat guns should depend on how prevalent you want them to be. If you want to eliminate other ranged attacks, just make them better. If you want bows and such to be an option (for PC's, where a more expensive cost doesn't really matter past first level), don't make the guns so powerful. Easy :)
 

MarauderX

Explorer
Warcraft has some mechanics that deal with firearms and such to keep it 'balanced' with a regular d20 system. There is plenty there on rifles, pistols, mortars, explosives and the like, and has some easy rules for if you want to create your own bombs and the skills needed to prepare/activate them safely.
 

Stormborn

Explorer
My first question is thus:

Can anyone suggest a good source of firearms and other technologies that would go well with the standard DnD setting? I've heard mention of something called the Iron Kingdoms in passing many times, but never seen it specifically.

The Iron Kindgoms: Lock and Load Character Primer does have rules for firearms. Its by Priavateer Press. The full setting books are to come out this year.
Freeport has firearms, I think there is a preview at the Green Ronin website.
Sorcery and Steam has firearm rules as well, very powerful firearms.

And then my second question - and the first for my next delve into these rules - is:

What level of technology could I reach before firearms would become far superior to normal weapons? And how can I balance firearms against typical weapons should I wish to make them better than "normal" weapons? If I am to make them more powerful, would a much greater crafting difficulty and consequently a much higher cost be enough of a balancing factor?

it all depends on the other factors in your setting. Magic will lessen the impact of firearms. High prices will make them much like magic items. Freeport and Iron Kingdoms will help.​
 

Coredump

Explorer
One of my friends had a neat idea. He created a DnD world within a Traveller-type universe. Either to protect the 'backward' DnD folks, or to study the magic, or whatever; the planet is quarentined. Thus some firearms are smuggled in, but the technology for making them doesn't exist on the planet. Also allows some controls, if too many weapons in one place, the 'police' would come and confiscate them, etc.

Anyway, no one on the planet knew they were quarantined, so the players would never know...but it allows you to do some pretty funky things.

Heck, you could even have them get 'hired' by the police to collect all of the rogue technology... whatever.

Good Luck,
 

Aaron2

Explorer
Greatfrito said:
What level of technology could I reach before firearms would become far superior to normal weapons? And how can I balance firearms against typical weapons should I wish to make them better than "normal" weapons? If I am to make them more powerful, would a much greater crafting difficulty and consequently a much higher cost be enough of a balancing factor?

Anything up to the flintlock would be inferior to normal D&D weapons in a typical D&D fight (i.e. most damage in shortest period of time). Before the invention of the matchlock, it took at least two people to fire a gun; one to aim and another to put a match on the touch hole. Either that or the weapon needed to be mounted. A matchlock required the match to be lit first and the primer pan to be open. While that's ok for a set piece battle, its not very handy in a dark, dank dungeon environment. Wheelocks are better but require all sort of fiddly springs and winding. Flintlocks didn't exists until the 1600s which is pretty much after D&D tech.

In general
1300s cannon
1400s matchlocks
1500s wheellocks (generally used for pistols)
1600s flintlocks. By this time armor was already on its way out.

The Iron Kingdom firearms rules are ok, but makes them far to handy.


Aaron
 
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AeroDm

First Post
One thing to keep in mind with firearms is that they don't _necessarily_ need to be balanced against the core weapons.

I've seen them done (unfortunately no print reference) where they were clearly better than normal weapons with range increments and damage appropriate for a vastly superior weapon. Feats existed to reduce reloading to a move-action, which meant a proficient user could fire every round.

With this in mind, it makes no sense why any relatively skilled person wouldn't use guns, which is appropriate. Once you got into iterative attack levels or high proficiency with a weapon (ala duel-wielding) it made less sense to use firearms. I suppose it only works if you expect your campaign to spend as much time above 5th level as it does below it.
 

John Q. Mayhem

Explorer
Barsoom uses IK's firearms. They are good, and very different in construction than any real gun I've ever seen. I believe they use mixing semi-magical chemicals to make the boom (I know Dispel Magic can suppress them).
 

Greatfrito

First Post
Okay, cool, but if anyone can give me a link to the Iron Kingdoms firearms rules, as I've not been able to locate something that was too helpful (I'm hoping the 2 page pdf isn't it). If they're not online, if someone could give me the title of the book I could find them in, I'd be much obliged.

As is, here's one of my older firearms files. Most of the stuff is probably bs as far as the descriptions go, but the actual rules stuff is what matters about it, really. If I had access to my older stuff too, I'd grab it. Bear in mind, this is a much older bit of text, which I may or may not just scrap entirely.

(I would have posted it as an attachment... but for some reason I can't attach stuff)

Firearms Mk. II
============================================================================
============================================================================
Firearm Discriptions
**************************************************
Smooth-Bore: Smooth-bore firearms have as their barrel a simple metal tube. As their name would imply, this tube is completely smooth on the inside. All smooth-bore firearms in The World are muzzel-loading weapons, and although technology has reached beyond the point of seperate powder and ball, many smooth-bore weapons are used by those who have less access to new technology, so they often use powder horns and ball-shot that are kept seperate. All shot-guns are smooth-bored because the spreading shot does not gain any benefits of having a rifled barrel (in fact, in some cases, it may very well interfere with the shot).

Rifled: Rifled firearms are a new, and deadly, technology in The World. Many master gunsmiths have sought long and hard for ways to improve upon their weapons, and Rifled barrels are one such improvement. A rifled barrel is one that has a spiralling patern engraved into the inside of the barrel. As the bullet travels through the barrel these grooves cause it to spin, and it continues to spiral even after it exits the barrel. This gives the bullet a better range and accuracy than traditional smooth-bore firearms. However, the technology to craft rifled weapons is still in its infant stages, and its design can be ascertained only by the most adept of gunsmiths, thus rifled weapons cost a great deal more in time and resources - and thus their market prices are increased over those of typical smooth-bore weapons. Because of the cost, most firearms in The World are smooth-bore, with only the wealthy or elite haing access to rifled weapons. Only elite special combat groups are likely to carry rifles onto a battlefield. Most rifled weapons are still muzzel-loaded, though nearly all of them utilize the combined ball and shot that is fast becoming the prominent form of ammunition. Seperate powder and ball is unhealthy for the gun, and is thus only used as a last resort in most situations.

Muzzel-Loaded: Muzzel-loading firearms are those that require their user to put the ammunition (and powder, in most cases) down into the gun through the barrel. To allow for optimal loading, all muzzel-loading firearms are built with a ramrod for packing in powder and bullet as necessary. This is an elongated metal rod that fits into the gun's barrel, allowing the user to shove whatever is necessary down into the main chamber of the gun. This type of loading of ammunition allows great room for terrible mishaps to occur. Nearly every firearm in The World is muzzel-loading. A new form of pistol from the East has been gaining popularity for it's "rapid-fire" capabilities due to its alternate form of loading, and many suspect that the Eastern gunsmiths are working on expanding the concept of "rapid-fire" firearms to muskets and the like.

Breach/Chamber-Loaded: A new technology, hailing from the East, is surfacing in The World. Breach-loaded weapons can load quicker, and can hold more than a single shot, giving their users a distinct advantage on the battlefield. Instead of loading the ammunition into the barrel of the gun the user loads it into a breach or chamber on the gun, specifically designed to hold the ammunition in pace before firing. In addition, most of these breaches and chambers are designed with complex mechanical components that allow the gun to hold more than one round at the ready at a time, allowing so-called "rapid-fire" shooting. Chambered guns range in the number of rounds that they can hold from two (a rectangular-looking chamber that "flips" after each shot is fired) to seven (a complex drum almost cylindrical in shape). However, most chambered guns hold five or six rounds. Many chambered guns can easily be modified by replacing the current revolving chamber with one with a more appropriate number of chambers (and thus any "revolver"-type firearm can easilybe upgraded for more shots). Breach or chamber guns require the use of higher-costing metalic rounds, where the casing for the ammunition is completely metal.

Ammunition Types
**************************************************
Ball and Powder: The basic, and most elementary, form of ammunition is ball and powder. Only used in muzzel-loading weapons, ball and powder akes the most time, and is the most likely form of ammunition for which a mishap can occur. To load this form of ammunition, first black powder is poured in the appropriate quantity for the weapon down the barrel into the firing chamber. Then the ball is placed in the barrel, and packed down onto the powder. When ignited, the powder explodes and the ball is projected forward.

Combined Round: The combined round consists of a ball with a small packet of pre-measured powder attached at the back. This rounds are still loaded via the barrel of the gun, but it takes much less time to do so because the user only has to load one item into the gun. Mishaps are almost just as likely for the combined round as they are for the seperate ball and powder, though it may just be a characteristic of muzzel-loading firearms in general. Combined rounds cost only slightly more than seperate ball and powder.

Metal-Case Rounds: These rounds are for use in breach- or chamber-loading firearms. They are similar to the generic combined round, but instead of the powder being attached with light-weight and flammable fabric, it is attached to the bullet with a metal case that is indeed fused with the bullet itself. Metal-cased rounds are concusively fired, meaning that the gun simply hits the back end (which contains the powder) with enough force for the round to go off. Because of their rigid structure and self-cotained nature, metal-case rounds have a much lower tendency for mishaps to occur during their use. Still, this form of ammunition and the weapons that use it are not yet widespread in The World, and are thus extremely costly in most places.

Ball vs. Bullet: While most people in The World use the terms interchangeably, the two are actually different forms of ammunition. Ball ammunition is just what it sounds like: rounds balls of lead or other metal that are fired from a firearm. Bullets on the other hand are more damaging forms of ammunition. They have a conical shape, with the point at the section where it will enter the target. Ball ammunition is used in all kinds of weapons and is even built into metal-case rounds. Bullets are only usable with rifled firearms, though they increase the weapon's combat capabilities slightly and cost a bit more.

Shot: Though it can be used in any type of smooth-bored gun, shot ammunition is typically reserved for special shot-guns. This form of ammunition is composed of multiple tiny balls that when fired as a single round spread out into a cloud of destructive power. Shot does more damage to living matter (or anything else, for that matter) at close range than many other forms of ammunition, but its accurate range is greatly reduced. Shot can be found in any form, be it simple ball-bearings that are poured into a muzzel-loader, encased balls attached into a combined round, or metal-cased balls for use in breach- and chamber-loading guns.

Hollowed Rounds: These special rounds are only availible in metal-cased versions. They consist of a large metal bullet that has had its middle bored out so that it can hold one of several substances. Sometimes known as "Alchemical Bullets", these rounds are often filled with alchemist's fire or alchemical acid or even raw explosive gunpowder and then sealed. They are designed so that they break open upon impact, exposing the target to whatever substance they hold inside. Because of its large size, ammunition of this type does not have the same range as other forms of ammunition, and even though the rounds are larger they can only contain so much alchemical material and thus do not have splash effects (as opposed to standard alchemist's fire, alchemical acid, or balckpowder bombs). Hollowed rounds (or "Alchemical Bullets", as they are sometimes called) are fairly expensive, and are bought and sold by the single round.

*****************************************************************
Example Alchemical Bullets
*****************************************************************
Alchemical Acid: Reduced Damage (One Size Lower), Hit deals 1d6 acid damage to the target.
Alchemist's Fire: Reduced Damage (One Size Lower), Hit deals 1d6 fire damage to the target
and additional fire damage on the next round (as per Alchemist's Fire).
Blackpowder Charge: No Bullet Damage, Hit deals 1d6 Piercing (from the bullet's shapnel)
and 1d8 fire (from the explosion).
Holy Water: Reduced Damage (One Size Lower), Hit deals 2d4 damage to undead or evil outsider.
*****************************************************************
*****************************************************************

Basic Gun Structures
***************************************************
Pistol: Pistol is a generic term used to describe the many small, single-handed firearms that are available. Most pistols are between five and twelve inches long from the back of the handle to the tip of the barrel. Most pistols are muzzel-loading with a smooth-bore barrel. Most pistols do not have a rifled barrel. In The East many gun users are seeking out newer "revolvers" which use the advancing chamber-loading design to allow multiple shots before reloading. These "revolvers" make much more common use of the rifled-barrel design.

Musket: Muskets are the larger firearms in The World. They usually require two hands to fire appropriately, though their size makes it possible to use them with one hand if necessary. Most muskets are at least three feet long, and up to five feet long. In the majority of The World muskets are still smooth-bore and muzzel-loading, but in The East traditional muskets are being replaced by "rifles", which all have rifled barrels (hence their name) and are typically breach-loading. Many traditional muskets can be loaded with shot ammunition at the whim of the user, but newer "rifles" do not load shot well. Special "shot-guns" designed in The East make the best use of shot ammunition.

Weapon Statistics
(All For Medium-Sized Firearms; Firearms for creatures larger or smaller than medium-size have modified damage values.)
*****************************************************
Light Firearms
------------------------------------------
Light Pistol (Smooth-Bore Muzzel-Loader): 1d6 piercing, 19-20/x3; Range Increment 20ft.;
Ammunition: Ball and Powder/Combined Round (Ball or Bullet); lb.; ???gp.

One-Handed Firearms
------------------------------------------
Heavy Pistol (Smooth-Bore Muzzel-Loader): 1d8 piercing, 19-20/x3; Range Increment 20ft.;
Ammunition: Ball and Powder/Combined Round (Ball or Bullet); lb.; ???gp.
Eastern Revolver[Primitive] (Smooth-Bore 2-Chambered): 1d8 piercing, 19-20/x3; Range Increment 20ft.;
Ammunition: Metal-Case Rounds (Ball or Bullet); lb.; ???gp.
(3-chambered): lb.; ???gp.
(4-chambered): lb.; ???gp.
(5-chambered): lb.; ???gp.
Eastern Revolver[Advanced] (Rifled 3-Chambered): 1d8 piercing, 19-20/x3; Range Increment 30ft.;
Ammunition: Metal-Case Rounds (Ball or Bullet); lb.; ???gp.
(4-chambered): lb.; ???gp.
(5-chambered): lb.; ???gp.
(6-chambered): lb.; ???gp.
(7-chambered): lb.; ???gp.
Half-Blunderbus (Smooth-Bore Muzzel-Loader): 3d6 to 10ft./2d6 to 15ft./1d6 past 15ft.,

Okay... that's a ton... sorry.
I'm gonna start working on what exactly I want this stuff to do. Bear in mind, I really don't care about how "technologically advanced" this stuff is in comparison to our own historical timeline. I'm working under the assumtion that in a world with magic and multiple planes of existance interacting, certain aspects of the timeline could get very speeded up.
 

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