<< PLANESCAPE >> How do you defeat the Lady of Pain?

EricNoah · Feb 12, 2004

In a world where "rule of three" reigns supreme, the Lady's rule is even higher: the "rule of zero." Whatever she wants, she gets. Period!

diaglo · Feb 12, 2004

wait for the new Forgettable Realms book due out. i'm sure it will offer you some clues.

there was a call a year or two ago for an author on the WotC board and several threads were started here also.

Robbert Raets · Feb 12, 2004

'This is King Six, requesting fire mission, over.'

Rel · Feb 12, 2004

I heard she can be crushed under the foot of a humble ant.

But don't quote me on that.

Calico_Jack73 · Feb 12, 2004

EricNoah said:
In a world where "rule of three" reigns supreme, the Lady's rule is even higher: the "rule of zero." Whatever she wants, she gets. Period!

At the risk of having to start a new discussion of the Chicken & Egg situation, who created the Lady? If nobody created the Lady then is the Lady the Creator?

EricNoah · Feb 12, 2004

Here's a better question:

How can a D&D character destroy something that doesn't have stats?? Answer me THAT my friend!!

Zappo · Feb 12, 2004

From a metagame PoV, by Planescape canon, trying to defeat the Lady is nonsense. Before being an actual entity, even before being a plot device (I actually don't like using her as such), she is the symbol of the setting. By Planescape canon, killing the lady is nonsensical because it would pretty much mean that you are no longer playing Planescape.

In-game, by Planescape canon, defeating the Lady is impossible; the "shadow" thing is only a display, the real effect being that she can kill anything within Sigil including a greater deity, when she wants, with no possible way to resist, without even needing to be present. She also has full and selective control on all ways in and out of the city. This is all well-documented. Basically, you can't affect her from outside Sigil, you can't enter Sigil unless she lets you, and once there you can be killed or mazed the moment you try something. You can't even communicate with her to try some trick. As if that wasn't enough, there is evidence that her powers may extend outside the city as well.

Basically, if you want to engineer a campaign where the Lady is killed, ousted, or otherwise defeated, you have to step out of Planescape canon (which is fine, but maybe not what you were looking for).

SamuraiY · Feb 12, 2004

summon the overgod (dont remember who that is in planescape). He's probably the only thing that could beat her. course you'd have to convince him to, and I have no clue why he would...

Calico_Jack73 · Feb 12, 2004

EricNoah said:
Here's a better question:

How can a D&D character destroy something that doesn't have stats?? Answer me THAT my friend!!

With a weapon that doesn't list damage?

Hmmmm.... THE SDF-1!!!!! Damage listed is that it destroys absolutely EVERYTHING in it's path of fire which is 1 mile wide and 1,000,000,000 miles long.

Sorry, I had to go there. The D&D gods don't have stats either. Only their Avatars do.

Li Shenron · Feb 12, 2004

Calico_Jack73 said:
Actually, I don't really care. I don't use Planescape in my campaigns. I'm just tired of people running around the board touting the Lady as the end all, be all being in the game with a "My Dad can beat up your Dad" mentality. There is another discussion going on about Demons & Devils forming an alliance and taking over the reality. One of the sticking points is how they would take over Sigil. There are a bunch of people coming up with reasons why they couldn't do it but not many coming up with ways they could. That is what this discussion is for, finding ways the fiends could overrun Sigil.

Mah, I don't know the details of Planescape, but if you want to play by the setting and the setting says you can't destroy her, then you can't destroy her.

If you are the DM and you want her to be destroyable, you can come up with whatever you consider appropriate. Of course if you ask how "by the rules" of Planescape to do that, every PS adept will simply reply that "by the rules" there is no way...

I am not sure, but it looks to me that you are trying to find a hole in a setting you perhaps don't like...