[rant] Fighting intellectual theft on WOTC

Ugh... I don't know how you mods do it. People really can't seem to grasp the fact that sharing copies of documents with all your friends, and a thousand strangers, is a bad thing.

I've been maligned and belittled on WOTC because I dared to tell someone that, even though they own the ESD version of two old WOTC/TSR supplements, it was not legal for them to get *.txt versions from anyone who might have copied the text from the PDF into Notepad and corrected the OCR errors.

As I understand it, there are only two authorized outside distributors of the electronic versions of the supplements, right? svgames and rpgnow are the only two companies that may distribute them.

I also pointed out that, while intellectual theft was a bad thing, it might not be a good idea to try it on the manufacturer's message boards, since there was no legal way for them to obtain it from a non-authorized dealer (excerpts for sharing among your gaming group, for reviewing the documents, and for parody purposes being the only things permissible; wholesale copying of the entire file is not allowed...).

Okay, done ranting... Was I out of line? Check out the thread, but please post comments here, not in that thread! (No need to possibly lure them back to EN World, right? I'm not trying to flame them, nor am I trying to be a troll over there. I'm just trying to pount out what is possibly an unpalatable truth to them, before they get themselves banned...)

http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=180910

Heretic Apostate said:

Ugh... I don't know how you mods do it. People really can't seem to grasp the fact that sharing copies of documents with all your friends, and a thousand strangers, is a bad thing.

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It's even worse than that.

Thanks to the Open Gaming License, it IS allowable to share the rules we game with among friends, gaming groups, and people we've never even met.

But there are rules to be followed, and the very same factors--Copyleft and ignorance--that led to so much software and music piracy have led to the current state of RPG piracy.

When someone asks for something like that, take the chance to tell them about Open Gaming, or point them to the OGF and FGA websites.

I've been maligned and belittled on WOTC because I dared to tell someone that, even though they own the ESD version of two old WOTC/TSR supplements, it was not legal for them to get *.txt versions from anyone who might have copied the text from the PDF into Notepad and corrected the OCR errors.

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By and by, I'm not 100% sure you're right on this part. If I pay for an ESD, and you pay for an ESD, and then you edit the ESD, I believe that there are certain legal situations where you can send me that work.

Though it's tricky, and it's on the level of photocopying an RPG book for use in the game. (i.e., DON"T DO IT ON MESSAGEBOARDS!)


Oh, and WotC is rather well aware of EnWorld. If you're concerned about the 'mods, just post your concerns and contact WotC's board admins.

I don't think Heretic is worried about mods, either coming on over here or causing trouble.

I think Heretic is worried about this Graz Hober and friends learning about the wonders of EnWorld.

Normally I am all about sharing good things with people. However since this guy sems to hold intellectual conversation at the fling poopie level of social intercourse I would have to bring out the Pre-BanHammer, and stop it before it starts.

TTFN--EvilE

PS: I had a really good laugh at how -every- post of Heretic repeated the refrain of: ... and asking for such illegal things on the manufacturer's web boards is a bad idea...

Oh its teh funny.

I dunno - this seems very harmless.

The guy presumably owns the PDF's legally. Is it such a crime for him to get it in text form? THe PDFs WOTC sells are impossible to print out, because they aren't OCRed and print the background and such and are basically almost unusable (the ones I've bought).

I also don't really remember the license agreement - but presumably it allows you to print copies. I can see being upset if he planned to resell them on Ebay, but just handing out portions to his players in his games? Not exactly a major crime.

Yup, I don't want to leave a trail of breadcrumbs back to EN World for angry posters to follow. Which is also why I posted this message to Meta, since it's a rare individual who posts to or even reads Meta.

I can't seem to bring up the WOTC End User License Agreement (EULA) on svgames.com, so I can't use that for a counter-argument.

But I do remember the whole snafu over the Conversion Library here on EN World, where people were basically copied the entire supplement and then tacked on their conversion (thus removing the need to actually buy the ESD). I don't think it's permitted to do anything that makes it unnecessary to purchase the ESD, nor do I think it's permitted to alter the ESD (for instance, conversions aren't allowed to alter the number of creatures in an encounter to balance it, or to substitute other creatures, and then release it for general consumption; within your own RPG group, sure, but not available to the general public).

As for the guy owning the supplements, how can he prove it? On usenet newsgroups, there's always someone coming around, asking for CD keys because "I own the game, but I lost the CD case; can someone give me their CD key?" Sure, maybe they're legit. And maybe they're a pirate trying to get a valid CD key...

I tried a couple of the ESDs, and I can copy text using the Select Text tool.

Return to the Keep on the Borderlands said:

This​

​

section is intended primarily for Dungeon Masters new to
​

their craft but may also prove useful for experienced Dungeon
​

Masters with new players, reminding them of some of the basics​

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​

​

Scourge of the Slavelords (A1-4) said:

of Greyhawk, Scourge of the Slave Lords
​

must rely on your skills and knowledge to
​

succeed.​

​

You are the only person who
​

knows the abilities and temperament of
​

your players and their characters. You are​

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​

I think I'll register there with a username of "Moderator", and have a bit of fun with our friend!

Maybe something along the lines of:

"Thanks for coming to play tonight guys!

Before we start, I have these 44 pages of text from the adventure I am going to run that I would like you to read!

Guys? Guys? Where ya going?"

Feeling a little punchy tonight...

I do understand how you feel, HA. You were trying to be helpful!

Ah, thanks, HyperSmurf. Wasn't sure how to fix that, since I had just grabbed random paragraphs out of two Greyhawk-ish supplements I own to demonstrate that it is, in fact, possible to use the Select Text tool on the PDFs...

Weird, how the font messed up. Guess next time, I'll have to filter it through Notepad or something...

BigFreekinGoblinoid said:

Before we start, I have these 44 pages of text from the adventure I am going to run that I would like you to read!

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From my understanding of that thread, I think he wants to include paragraphs from 44 pages of text, and rather than have a big bundle of photocopies, he wants to copy-and-paste into a document to hand out to the players.

So, for instance, to give the players more information about the Marklands, he'll hand out history, geography, politics, and so forth, so that the players aren't always asking, "So who's the mayor of this town? And why is that guild so opposed to Greyhawk?"

Laudable goal, to give the players the same general knowledge (and to prevent whining for when they don't read it). He just simply asked for a non-legal way of doing it. He may have had the best of intentions, but that still doesn't make it right...

Yeah, I just got all fired up reading his posts though... I just remembered why I don't vist there on a regular basis...

Heretic Apostate said:

Weird, how the font messed up. Guess next time, I'll have to filter it through Notepad or something...

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Our version of vb board keeps the font of a cut-n-paste
(Older versions didn't.) if that's what you did.