Sorcerer Spell selection.

Astlin · Mar 21, 2002

I am going to play a Rogue/Sorcerer in an upcoming game. I plan on going into Arcane Trickster later on.

I have not played a caster in 3E. I am wary of the Sorcerers limited access to spells and the permanent nature of learning a spell. I do like the freedom of choosing what spell to cast and not having to keep up with what spells I have memorized. Should I stick with Sorcerer or is the Wizards versatility to good to pass up? If I do stay with Sorcerer what spells and feats would you suggest?

Thanks in advance.
Astlin

Neowolf · Mar 22, 2002

Personally, I prefer the Sorcerer over the Wizard for stylistic reasons. I dislike the idea of going to an academy and "learning" magic, I think magic should be more of a gift a person is born with. Ah well, to answer your question:

The 1st level spells I would recommend are Prestidigitation, True Strike, Unseen Servant, Sleep, Feather Fall, Jump, and Spider Climb. Granted, you can't learn them all (at least not early on), but for a Rogue/Sorcerer, I would bet any of them would be handy.

Some 2nd level spells to consider would be Cat's Grace, Web, Locate Object, Knock, Levitate, and Pyrotechnics.

I'm assuming with these recommendations that your character is a rogue who's using magical talents to augment his thieving. Hope that helps!

hong · Mar 22, 2002

These minmaxing questions are probably best asked in the D&D Rules forum.

Andy_Collins · Mar 22, 2002

Rogue/Sorcerer spell selection

You didn't say how you were planning on weighting your choice of Rogue and Sorcerer levels (more Rogue than Sorcerer, or vice-versa).

Certainly, a rogue with a couple levels of sorcerer should be picking spells very differently than a sorcerer with a couple levels of rogue.

If you're only dabbling in sorcerer, you're probably only looking at 0- and 1st-level spells (buy wands/scrolls for more powerful spells). Stay away from spells whose effects rely heavily on caster level (such as magic missile). The utility of light (or dancing lights), mage hand, and detect magic make them all but mandatory for the rogue/sorcerer. Sleep's great for taking out guards without bloodshed. Mage armor's great up through mid-levels at least, since you can go without armor (which helps many of your skills). (Shield's less useful because of its short duration; if you must have it, shell out 750 gp for a wand.) If you're planning on interacting, charm person's a must. Change self is pretty good. Spider climb's handy for those hard-to-reach treasure hoards. Oh, and don't forget ranged touch attack spells, like ray of frost--they're great for carrying your sneak attack! The most important thing to remember is to select only those spells that you expect to cast almost every time you adventure--for anything else, buy a wand or a scroll.

On the other hand, a sorcerer with a couple levels of rogue makes a potent character (that's what I'm playing in Monte Cook's "Ptolus" campaign). With the right support spells (cat's grace, endurance, haste, improved invisibility) you can be a monster in combat. Magic missile is a must--to paraphrase Ferris Bueller, for the mid- to high-level sorcerer, it is so choice. Again, make sure you're picking spells with high utility, and don't pick two spells of the same level that do the same thing (two offensive, two defensive, etc.). If you've already got magic missile, don't take burning hands, take shield instead. Your really tough choices come when you have the option of taking a spell for which a greater/improved version is sitting only a couple levels away. Unless you're advancing levels quickly, just take invisibility at Sor4, rather than putting it off until Sor8 (and improved invisibility)--who knows if you'll survive that long anyway?

I think you've found a great class combo with rogue/sorcerer, but you'll have to make some tough choices along the way. Good luck!

Hatchling Dragon · Mar 22, 2002

I'd have to suggest going with Wizardry. It's probably becuase I dislike the restrictions on spells known that a Sorcerer labors under.

While the high Cha of a Sorcerer is good for the interrelation skills, the high Int of a Wizard means buckets 'o skill points to use, always a good thing in my book.

And of course having the ability (ie: Scribe Scroll) to scribe all the 'emergency scrolls' you could ever want is never a bad thing.

Hatchling Dragon

bret · Mar 22, 2002

You said you wanted to eventually go Arcane Trickster.

Given this, I would definately go Wizard instead of Sorcerer for the following reasons:

You need lots of skill points. If you are only taking the minimally needed 4 levels of Rogue, you are using up 21 rogue skill points for the requirements.
Wizard allows you to fix a poor spell selection. If you find that one of the spells you choose doesn't work very well for you, you just quit memorizing it.
You need to be at least 11th level to qualify as a Rogue/Sorcerer. Need 4 Rogue (for the Decipher Script) and 6 Sorcerer (for the 3rd level spell). A wizard could start one level earlier.
There are only 4 Cha based skills on the Arcane Tricker's skill list, vs. 10 Int based skills. When you figure in the effect of high Int on skill points over the levels, unless you intend to max out your Cha skills and are heavily oriented towards people skills the Int helps you a lot more.
Sorcerers work best when you are always going to be casting the same spells all the time. To my mind, the trickster needs flexibility so that people have a hard time anticipating his next move. Seems to me that these two goals conflict with each other.

As always, you should play the type of character you want and feel comfortable with. Sometimes it is much more interesting to come at a character from a different direction.

StealthyMark · Mar 22, 2002

A Rog3/Brd7 makes a nice Arcane Trickster, too.

BTW, why is Use Magic Device not on the Trickster's skill list?

Buttercup · Mar 22, 2002

It depends on your motivation for playing a sorcerer. If it's a RP reason, then that should help you choose your spells. For example, I'm playing a cleric/sorcerer. She is a cleric of a sea goddess, so I'm not selecting any fire spells for the sorcerer levels, but am focusing on water related spells that do cold or acid damage. She has an 18 charisma, which is probably all that keeps her alive in her world, since her religion and race (half elf) make her a "demon" in the eyes of the dominant religion.

If you're minmaxing, then pick stuff like fireball.

But I would think that a rogue would like spells that would help him/her get the job done. Identify, invisibility and things that make one harder to hit, like blur and so forth.

Finally, I haven't found the sorcerer's limited spell list to be a problem so far. However, our group has a full wizard and a rogue/wizard in it too, so our different skills complement each other.

Jack Haggerty · Mar 22, 2002

Don't forget that you need Mage Hand to qualify for Arcane Trickster.

I too would recommend a Wizard instead of a Sorcerer for an AT... Remember, you can always write scrolls.

Darklone · Mar 22, 2002

Hmmm.

Arcane trickster? I'd go for the Rogue/bard because of PANACHE.

If you wanna powergame, go for wizard. Since you are multiclassed, you don't rely on your spellcasting and the greater versatility of the wizard rocks then. As well as the mentioned higher int for skill points.