Snatching victory from the jaws of...victory

WanderingMonster · Mar 1, 2004

During a red herring adventure, the PCs found some clues that suggested a local alchemist was abducting children to use them in a fiendish summoning ritual. They followed the clues all the way to the secret underground chamber where children were about to be sacrificed as components in a dark incantation. As designed, this was a "run away" encounter where the PCs were hopelessly outmatched and would witness atrocities that would set up a righteous vengeance quest with a nasty BBEG. It started to work!

The barbarian was instantly imprisoned with a bead of force. The resulting blast nearly killed two other 2nd level party members. The bard healed the cleric and started to run away (after much debating). The cleric healed the second cleric and instead of running away as they all had planned to do, he roleplayed. He decided he couldn't leave the remaining children (and his barbarian companion) to die and still look himself in the mirror everyday. Everyone else does the same. So four 2nd level characters charge through a crowd of goblin adepts, risking AOOs and almost certain death, to kill the BBEG.

It works.

I designed this as an EL8 encounter as a plot element to introduce a diabolical element. They could have run away—I counted on it—and the design of my arc would have remained intact. But they called my bluff and won. A few unlucky die rolls and it would have been a TPK. They were already discussing "new characters" as they roleplayed this desperate act out. The bastards beat the encounter.

I love this game.

Bur now I need to come up with a plan B. They deserved the win, and I rewarded them heavily. DMs: what would you have done? Would you have fudged to save the plot? Players: would you have acted tactically or gone for broke? Would anyone read this if I started a Story Hour for it?

Beale Knight · Mar 1, 2004

But now I need to come up with a plan B. They deserved the win said:
heavily[/i]. DMs: what would you have done? Would you have fudged to save the plot? Players: would you have acted tactically or gone for broke? Would anyone read this if I started a Story Hour for it?

Wow. Props to your players and their characters for pulling this off.

I think you were right to not fudge to save the plot. It would have been massively unfair to take the win from them, even if they were luckier than they should have been. They sound like the were roleplaying brave heroes very well.

For a plan B, it depends on the party and what other plans you had bubbling in the back of your mind (or prepared already). If you really want to run the rest of this set up, how about some underling or assistant to the BBEG discovering the secret stash of back up notes the BBEG kept. Assistant takes these and tries the same thing in another town, maybe the PCs get wind of it in time, maybe not.

Meanwhile, the PCs are doubtlessly going to be big heroes for saving so many pf the town's children. This could lead to sponsorships or at least leads on new adventures. Since two of the PCs are clerics, their temples could see thier success as reason to trust them with some super-important mission.
There's all kind of hooks you can pull out in the afterglow of their success. Maybe introduce rivals in the form of jealous law enforcement people that are unhappy the PCs did what they couldn't.

You might have to run a tangent adventure for a session in order to have time to adjust your campaign plan to this development, but it sounds like you've got plenty to work with.

edit - Did this outcome affect your plans for the main adventure this was a red herring of?

evildm · Mar 1, 2004

Excellent job, and it was very wise not to steal the win from them. They're as much masters of the destiny of the game as you. My recommendation would be that this one alchemist was simply one of many. The tip of the iceberg, if you will. If they learn that there's a whole cult out there doing this, they'll be even more cautious about dealing with them, but they'll have another goal in stopping these monsters from doing whatever it might be that they're trying to do. More chances for altruistic heroics and whatnot.

evileeyore · Mar 1, 2004

Hail to the Champions!

Kudos on not cheesing them out of victory!

Praise having been dished out, hmmm. The multi-cult sounds viable, but also: Why did the BBEG want to sac all those kids?

Could that have been a red herring to draw attention away fom something else. Whether the attention drawn was meant to be the party, other heroes. other evil groups, or the gods?

Maybe BBEB was somebodies right hand man, and now Mister Big (the BBEG's boss) has lost whatever the sacing was meant to gain. Thereby creating a new arch-villian. Maybe Mr Big is somehow immune to the characters legal actions? Like a superior or something? Just ideas.

A storyhour would be cool. But get a few more games downfirst or random missed games will equal delayed storyhour updates. You know what that leads too...

humble minion · Mar 1, 2004

Like everyone else said: you did the right thing, and your game sounds like it rocks. And while a storyhour would be damn cool from our point of view, it's a lot of work and a big investment of time. Only commit to it if you're sure it won't draw your attention away from the game proper.

A few possible plan Bs:
- the full power of the bad guy's ritual was foiled, but it worked partially. The wall between the mortal and the diabolic was thinned for a moment, and something came through. The kicker is that it's very weak, and can't exist independantly. So it has cleaved to the other lifeforces in the area at the time the ritual was interrupted. The PCs might find themselves gaining strange powers and having uncharacteristically violent impulses. Any surviving goblin adepts may have fled back to their tribes and are now using their newfound power to organise and strengthen a new horde. And of course, there are the children...
- some bigwig wizard/cleric/noble from the capital (or whatever) hears of their explots and (knowing the sort of power levels involved in the ritual) forms a greatly inflated estimate of the group's abilities. He may wish to recruit them to send them on other missions in which they will be equally outmatched, or he may wish to keep them quiet as a tool in his personal political ambitions...

Zappo · Mar 1, 2004

Beale Knight said:
Wow. Props to your players and their characters for pulling this off.

And to their dice too, if this was an EL8 vs. a 2nd level party.

Thornir Alekeg · Mar 1, 2004

Congrats to your group and to you for letting it happen. Obviously I don;t know you and your group, but I would caution you to make sure the players understand how close it was and that you didn't fudge either way, otherwise they might start to think they can take on anything and you won't be willing to kill them off, then they get upset when they find out they are wrong and get a TPK (this almost happened to me once, years ago in a different game).

As for plot, Did they rescue all the children? If not, I might consider an upset parent of a child who was not rescued in time seeking vengeance aganist the party for "sacrificing his child to save the others"- either though his own actions or hiring out for it. It's a little cruel, but mixing a little regret into their satisfaction at beating the BBEG might bring even more great roleplaying.

Henry · Mar 1, 2004

If you started a story hour on this encounter, at least, I sure as heck WOULD read it, because I want to know how they pulled it off.

Had my players done similar, I would have let it go through, and rewarded them heavily. Beating the odds stacked against you is the stuff of heroes, and what's the worst that could happen? They gain a level as a result? They gain a bit more wealth and magical power than you expected? Those can be fixed. But the loss of trust of a group that a DM stiffs out of a proper victory can not be so easily fixed.

Kesh · Mar 1, 2004

WanderingMonster said:
During a red herring adventure, the PCs found some clues that suggested a local alchemist was abducting children to use them in a fiendish summoning ritual. They followed the clues all the way to the secret underground chamber where children were about to be sacrificed as components in a dark incantation. As designed, this was a "run away" encounter where the PCs were hopelessly outmatched and would witness atrocities that would set up a righteous vengeance quest with a nasty BBEG. It started to work!

The barbarian was instantly imprisoned with a bead of force. The resulting blast nearly killed two other 2nd level party members. The bard healed the cleric and started to run away (after much debating). The cleric healed the second cleric and instead of running away as they all had planned to do, he roleplayed. He decided he couldn't leave the remaining children (and his barbarian companion) to die and still look himself in the mirror everyday. Everyone else does the same. So four 2nd level characters charge through a crowd of goblin adepts, risking AOOs and almost certain death, to kill the BBEG.

It works.

I designed this as an EL8 encounter as a plot element to introduce a diabolical element. They could have run away—I counted on it—and the design of my arc would have remained intact. But they called my bluff and won. A few unlucky die rolls and it would have been a TPK. They were already discussing "new characters" as they roleplayed this desperate act out. The bastards beat the encounter.

I love this game.

Bur now I need to come up with a plan B. They deserved the win, and I rewarded them heavily. DMs: what would you have done? Would you have fudged to save the plot? Players: would you have acted tactically or gone for broke? Would anyone read this if I started a Story Hour for it?

Just make the BBEG really just a henchman for the true BBEG. Whom you can now design.

Seriously, you can keep your plot (mostly) intact, just by dropping clues that this villain they defeated was only part of the problem and leading them to the real threat.

Varianor Abroad · Mar 1, 2004

Henry said:
If you started a story hour on this encounter, at least, I sure as heck WOULD read it, because I want to know how they pulled it off.

Good point Henry.

My personal rule of thumb is to never force the plot to conform to my anticipated results. You did the right thing. Actually this is a grand opportunity for you. Did the players express any fears or worries afterward? Play upon those to decide what the next problem they'll face it.