BAB for Monsters with Class Levels

Janos Audron · Mar 8, 2004

Does a Frost Giant with 9 cleric levels get 4 attacks?

A FG has 14 HD, add 9 Cle HD and it has more than 20 HD, but does BAB continue after 20 HD or are 20 HD considered 20 class levels and does he get Epic BAB?

silverblade · Mar 8, 2004

Yeah, once something has more than 20 hit dice, and some of those hit dice come from character levels, then it starts using epic level BAB and save progressions.

Mathew_Freeman · Mar 8, 2004

Don't forget that 20 Hit Dice doesn't always equal a BAB of +20. A giant has a BAB which is 3/4 of his HD, same as a cleric. So a Giant with 20HD is only going to have 3 attacks.

Similarly, a Giant with 30HD will also only get three attacks. The only way for a Giant to get more attacks is to have fighter levels (or similar) instead of advancing in Hit Dice.

Reference: MM3.5e, pg 290.

glass · Mar 8, 2004

Tallarn said:
Don't forget that 20 Hit Dice doesn't always equal a BAB of +20. A giant has a BAB which is 3/4 of his HD, same as a cleric. So a Giant with 20HD is only going to have 3 attacks.

Similarly, a Giant with 30HD will also only get three attacks. The only way for a Giant to get more attacks is to have fighter levels (or similar) instead of advancing in Hit Dice.

Reference: MM3.5e, pg 290.

I'll have to check out your reference, but I thought a giant with 30 HD (that is, 30 levels of 'Giant') has a bab of +22 and four attacks.

EPRock · Mar 8, 2004

Where does it say this in the 3.5 MM on Page 290?

Monsters with Weapon attacks gain multiple attacks based upon their BAB.
A 30 hd Giant would have a BAB of 22. which would give the Giant 4 attacks with a weapon.

Voadam · Mar 8, 2004

solars have +22 BAB at 22 outsider HD. If they used epic advancement they would have +21.

They only have 4 iterative attacks however.

ANGEL, SOLAR
Large Outsider (Angel, Extraplanar, Good)
Hit Dice: 22d8+110 (209 hp)
Initiative: +9
Speed: 50 ft. (10 squares), fly 150 ft. (good)
Armor Class: 35 (–1 size, +5 Dex, +21 natural), touch 14, flat-footed 30
Base Attack/Grapple: +22/+35
Full Attack: +5 dancing greatsword +35/+30/+25/+20 melee (3d6+18/19–20) or +2 composite longbow (+5 Str bonus) +28/+23/+18/+13 ranged (2d6+7/x3 plus slaying) or slam +30 melee (2d8+13)

Artoomis · Mar 8, 2004

EPRock said:
Where does it say this in the 3.5 MM on Page 290?

Monsters with Weapon attacks gain multiple attacks based upon their BAB.
A 30 hd Giant would have a BAB of 22. which would give the Giant 4 attacks with a weapon.

Sure, but epic rules limit you number of attacks to whatever you have when you reach 20 HD (or is it ECL 20 - which could be sooner)?

CRGreathouse · Mar 8, 2004

EPRock said:
Monsters with Weapon attacks gain multiple attacks based upon their BAB.
A 30 hd Giant would have a BAB of 22. which would give the Giant 4 attacks with a weapon.

This is correct. Class levels gained after 20 HD give epic attack bonuses and epic saves, but racial Hit Dice always give BA not EA.

James McMurray · Mar 8, 2004

Epic rules limit character attacks to what they had at 20th level, because after that point you no longer get BAB, you get EAB. Monsters IIRC, continue to get BAB for hit dice, but have their number of attacks capped at 4.

If I'm remembering right, a Giant (30 HD) would have 22 BAB and 4 attacks, whereas a Giant 15 / Cleric 15 would have 14 BAB and +5 EAB (for a total of 3 attacks).