Sultans of Smack

Hypersmurf said:

Can someone fill me in on the rules? Limits on attributes, level, resource values? What AC opponents are assumed to be for calculating average damage, etc?

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There really aren't any. The general rule of thumb is 200 gross points of damage - before you check to see it they hit. If the attack bonus is too low, people laugh at you and throw objects.

See the "Jack the Knife" thread for my attempt to change this.

Re: Re: Re: Ranger Smackdown?

Hypersmurf said:

Of course, except against a favoured enemy, anything you come up with could probably be done identically-but-better by a Ftr4/Wiz16.

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You are probably right, but you never mentioned the criteria of the ranger having a BETTER Smack than a wizard/fighter.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Ranger Smackdown?

You are probably right, but you never mentioned the criteria of the ranger having a BETTER Smack than a wizard/fighter.

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Hey, don't look at me - Ranger wasn't my idea

-Hyp.

I present to you:
The Spell-Storing Smackdown OR
"Thanks for the hit points."

Max out a wizard for dagger throwing, and then utilize spell-storing daggers with metamagicked Vampiric Touches.


Halfling Wiz 16

Str 8+3d4(TT) = ~15
Dex 20+4(levels)+3d4(TT) = ~31
Con 10
Int 13+6 = 19
Wis 8
Cha 8

HP ~40

BAB: +8/+3

Feats:
Scribe Scroll
Maximize Spell
Craft Magic Arms and Armor
Weapon Focus: Dagger
Rapid Shot
Improved Rapid Shot [Non-Core, Optional](Dragon 275, no penalties for rapid shot)
Empower Spell
Far Shot
Point Blank Shot

Equipment:
6x Dagger +1, Spell Storing, Returning
Headband of Intellect +6

Spells:
Maximized Empowered Vampiric Touch, Stored in each dagger
Haste, Running
Empowered Tenser's Transformation, Running


Hp: ~40+(1.5*16d6)= ~124
BAB: +16/+11/+6/+1

Now for the Attack Sequence:
At range of <20 ft:
Dagger +1 Spell Storing, Returning +30/+30(Rapid Shot)/+30(Haste)/+25/+20/+15
W/OUT IRS: +28/+28/+28/+23/+18/+13

Damage per attack: 1d4+4+(60+5d6)

Max Potential Damage: 498 hp
Max Potential Temporary hp gained: 90 hp
Avg. Damage AC 20: 461.3 hp
Avg. Damage AC 25: 419.0 hp
Avg. Damage AC 30: 355.5 hp

EDIT: Missed Halfling Thrown weapon bonus and bonus for size small in attack sequence. Avg. Damage calculations are still slightly inaccurate.
EDIT: Changed range to <20 ft. Temporary hp don't stack: reduced max temporary hp to 90. What's the source for that? Or is it just the "bonuses from the same source don't stack" rule that's in effect?
EDIT: Imp. Rpid Shot is non-core: denoted as optional. Added attack routines w/out IRS.

One small problem with the vampiric touch smackdown is that temporary hp don't stack. So you would max out with 72 hp from a well rolled maximized, empowered vampiric touch. You should still dish out an average of 60 hp from each maxamized empowered vampiric touch that hits.

I'm not sure about temp hit points, but I'm sure you want to change the range from 20 feet (-2 range penalty wit Far Shot) to less than 20 feet (no penalty with Far Shot). (PH page 97)

Sir Hawkeye said:

I present to you:
The Spell-Storing Smackdown OR
"Thanks for the hit points."

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Couple comments on this Smack:

You used Improved Rapid Shot (non-core) feat. I think this is commonly frowned upon by others.

To sum up the Smack - it takes a minimum of 6 7th level spells (2 days worth of the wizard's spells), one 8th level spell, and 140,000 g.p.'s (6 +3 weapons at 18,000 a pop + 32,000 for the headband), to do that damage for ONE ROUND?

Compare that to 6 Chain Lightning spells alone (6th level, even), which could do 6 x (16d6 + 16 (8d6)) = 3024 damage.

And can't the Spell Storing weapon enchantment only store 3rd level spells?
I don't know on this, but.... would the Empowered, Maximized Vampiric Touch would STILL be considered 1 3rd level spell?

reapersaurus said:

Compare that to 6 Chain Lightning spells alone (6th level, even), which could do 6 x (16d6 + 16 (8d6)) = 3024 damage.

And can't the Spell Storing weapon enchantment only store 3rd level spells?
I don't know on this, but.... would the Empowered, Maximized Vampiric Touch would STILL be considered 1 3rd level spell?

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1. 6 chain lightnings are a bad comparison - they take 6 rounds to use (or 3.5 with haste).
2. No, an Empowered, Maximized Vampiric Touch would not be able to be stored in a spell storing weapon.

Maximize Spell: "A maximized spell uses up a spell slot three levels higher than the spell's actual level"

Heighten Spell: "Unlike other metamagic feats, Heighten Spell actually increases the level of the spell it modifies."

Spell Storing: "allows a spellcaster to store a single targeted spell of up to 3rd level..."

Emphasis mine in all cases. However, I think it is clear that an empowered, maximized vampiric touch is considered a 3rd-level spell for the purposes of spell-storing. This is one of the rare cases where counting as a lower level spell is beneficial.

Point 2: Improved Rapid shot is unneccessary to the Smackdown. I shall denote it as optional.

Point 3: Rapidity in damage dealing is the purpose of the smackdown. It takes 3 days to cast all the Vampiric touches utilized, and only 1 round to use them all (2 w/ the preparatory round of haste/tenser's). There are few 16th level wizards who could cast those 6 chain lightnings you mentioned on the same day.

Emphasis mine in all cases. However, I think it is clear that an empowered, maximized vampiric touch is considered a 3rd-level spell for the purposes of spell-storing. This is one of the rare cases where counting as a lower level spell is beneficial.

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So by your logic - a Wand of Magic Missiles that shoots 5 missile volleys has a market price of 6750gp (1st level spell, caster level 9), whereas one that shoots 5 Maximized, Empowered missiles would be worth 8250gp (1st level spell, 11th level caster)?

Average damage of 17 vs 37, for only 30gp more per charge?

-Hyp.

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