D&D 3E/3.5 3.5 Polymorph gives Rust Monster's "Rust (Ex)" special attack

allenw · Apr 6, 2004

My party's wizard sprang this on me this weekend, and sure enough, it's 100% legal by the books. I'm surprised I haven't seen anyone comment on this before. (I just did a search and found only one previous comment, from back in August).
Oh well, the flail-wielding, power-attacking Fire Giant decided to hit him with an AoO anyway, and the Wizard failed his Death due to Massive Damage save.

Which reminds me: by the MM text, it looks like metal items that damage a Rust Monster are automatically destroyed, with a Reflex save only being allowed for magic items that are hit *by* the Rust Monster (rather than vice-versa). Am I correct?

Stalker0 · Apr 6, 2004

allenw said:
My party's wizard sprang this on me this weekend, and sure enough, it's 100% legal by the books. I'm surprised I haven't seen anyone comment on this before. (I just did a search and found only one previous comment, from back in August).
Oh well, the flail-wielding, power-attacking Fire Giant decided to hit him with an AoO anyway, and the Wizard failed his Death due to Massive Damage save. Which reminds me: by the MM text, it looks like metal items that damage a Rust Monster are automatically destroyed, with a Reflex save only being allowed for magic items that are hit *by* the Rust Monster (rather than vice-versa). Am I correct?

You are correct (now I know what my wizard should do against golems

As for magic items, there's a clause in the dmg somewhere, but magic items ALWAYS get saves before being destroyed.

Falling Icicle · Apr 6, 2004

allenw said:
My party's wizard sprang this on me this weekend, and sure enough, it's 100% legal by the books. I'm surprised I haven't seen anyone comment on this before. (I just did a search and found only one previous comment, from back in August).

Wow! I hadn't thoguht of that. Thank you for bringing this to my attention! I can vividly picture the wicked grin on my Wizard's face right now.

allenw said:
Which reminds me: by the MM text, it looks like metal items that damage a Rust Monster are automatically destroyed, with a Reflex save only being allowed for magic items that are hit *by* the Rust Monster (rather than vice-versa). Am I correct?

Magic items always get a save to avoid destruction.

Philip · Apr 6, 2004

Knew this for some time, never been useful to do it. But is makes the Rusting Grasp spell from the druid quite obsolete. Why cast this against an Iron Golem when you can automatically rust it when attacking as a rust monster?

I think this got by the playtesters. Rust should probably be Su instead of Ex, after all, how could instantly rusting large amount of metal not be Supernatural?

Scion · Apr 6, 2004

Philip said:
Knew this for some time, never been useful to do it. But is makes the Rusting Grasp spell from the druid quite obsolete. Why cast this against an Iron Golem when you can automatically rust it when attacking as a rust monster?

I think this got by the playtesters. Rust should probably be Su instead of Ex, after all, how could instantly rusting large amount of metal not be Supernatural?

Well, in the real world such rapid corrosion is possible for most/all things with proper conditions.

Just because those conditions might be incredibly difficult to set up even with the proper equipment has no bearing right?

Definately escaped their notice, it should be supernatural. Poor druids

lol

allenw · Apr 7, 2004

Falling Icicle said:
Magic items always get a save to avoid destruction.

Not against effects that don't allow a save, such as (for example) being hit by a Fire Seed (assuming that the damage dealt is sufficient to destroy the item).
In the case of the Rust Monster, the SRD text says:

Rust (Ex): A rust monster that makes a successful touch attack with its antennae causes the target metal to corrode, falling to pieces and becoming useless immediately. The touch can destroy up to a 10-foot cube of metal instantly. Magic armor and weapons, and other magic items made of metal, must succeed on a DC 17 Reflex save or be dissolved. The save DC is Constitution-based and includes a +4 racial bonus.

A metal weapon that deals damage to a rust monster corrodes immediately. Wooden, stone, and other nonmetallic weapons are unaffected.

It can be argued (and was, by the player in question) that since the "deals damage to a rust monster" clause doesn't mention a save, there isn't one in that instance. The offered justification is that the Reflex save from a rust monster's attack is to pull away before damage is done, but if you're the one damaging the rust monster, that's not an option.

Stalker0 · Apr 7, 2004

allenw said:
Not against effects that don't allow a save, such as (for example) being hit by a Fire Seed (assuming that the damage dealt is sufficient to destroy the item).
In the case of the Rust Monster, the SRD text says:

Magic items always gets a save, unless the text directly says otherwise. Even if the spell normally says no save, that's for the person, the item always gets a save if its magic.

As for the rapid corroding. Enzymes baby!! They are so useful, I'm sure you could create a substance with them that could speed up oxidation by 50 or 60 times normal speed.

Click to expand...

Scion · Apr 7, 2004

Stalker0 said:
As for the rapid corroding. Enzymes baby!! They are so useful, I'm sure you could create a substance with them that could speed up oxidation by 50 or 60 times normal speed.

yep, but probably not for the breadth of range that this sucker does it, nor in the amount of time

gold takes a long time to corrode after all.. effectively 'forever', dividing forever by 60 leaves roughly.. forever..lol

Sir Whiskers · Apr 8, 2004

allenw said:
Oh well, the flail-wielding, power-attacking Fire Giant decided to hit him with an AoO anyway, and the Wizard failed his Death due to Massive Damage save.

Next time, tell a wizard who wants to do this to get the cleric to cast shield other first.

Come to think of it, that would make a good combo - maybe wizards and clerics should keep a couple scrolls of these spells handy, for use when warranted...