Sneak Attack Master
Will
First Post
One thing I'll warn you of... multiclass rogues have a big weakness against opponents with uncanny defense. Since effective rogue level is going to be fairly low compared to total level, threats you are likely to encounter that have uncanny defense will be immune to your sneak attacks.
That doesn't have to be crippling, but don't count on sneak attacks when you see a barbarian, rogue, or monk.
That doesn't have to be crippling, but don't count on sneak attacks when you see a barbarian, rogue, or monk.
silverblade
First Post
Will said:
Not to sound too much like a rules lawyer, but monk's don't get uncanny dodge. Lot's of PrC's such as assassain and shadow dancer do, however. Plus undead, constructs, etc and anything with heavy fortification armor will be immune to sneak attacks.
Will
First Post
Corrected wrt monks.
My point wasn't the limits of sneak attack... those are fairly clear. Just pointing out that multiclass rogues have additional problems with sneak attack that the initial poster might not at first realize.
I know _I_ didn't realize that at first... have a rogue/mnk and rogue/ftr character, fought with a barbarian with one and went 'Ooooh. Right. Uncanny dodge...'
My point wasn't the limits of sneak attack... those are fairly clear. Just pointing out that multiclass rogues have additional problems with sneak attack that the initial poster might not at first realize.
I know _I_ didn't realize that at first... have a rogue/mnk and rogue/ftr character, fought with a barbarian with one and went 'Ooooh. Right. Uncanny dodge...'
drunkmoogle
First Post
I've built something similar to this for an NPC human. Went something like Rog3 / Mnk1 / Rgr1 / Asn1 / Inv. Blade2 / Mas. Thrower1 as final stats, but powered him down due to party level. Monk was great style, got four d6 dies at 9th level, and I allowed Sais to work with the Invisible Blade style because it's "close enough" (Go rule zero! W00t!)
The main problem with Master Thrower for a dedicated sneak attacker is the BAB requirement. The easiest wasy to it is Rog3 / Fgt2 / Class with Good BAB 1 / MT1. You get two feats to get anything with, plus the abilities of the other class. I suggest Swashbuckler (which later helps with the requirements for Invisible Blade, if you wish to go there) and picking up Far Shot and Two Weapon Fighting.
A few questions, though:
1) If you feint someone with Uncanny Dodge, do they lose their Dex to AC?
2) Invisible Blade eventually gains uncanny feint as a free action. Does that mean once per attack, once per round, or "until he gets it right?"
3) Master Thrower eventually gets Trip Shot. It seems by the RAW that he can make a trip attempt with EVERY shot, and still do normal damage with the same number of attacks per round. This smells of cheese, am I right with my interpretation?
The main problem with Master Thrower for a dedicated sneak attacker is the BAB requirement. The easiest wasy to it is Rog3 / Fgt2 / Class with Good BAB 1 / MT1. You get two feats to get anything with, plus the abilities of the other class. I suggest Swashbuckler (which later helps with the requirements for Invisible Blade, if you wish to go there) and picking up Far Shot and Two Weapon Fighting.
A few questions, though:
1) If you feint someone with Uncanny Dodge, do they lose their Dex to AC?
2) Invisible Blade eventually gains uncanny feint as a free action. Does that mean once per attack, once per round, or "until he gets it right?"
3) Master Thrower eventually gets Trip Shot. It seems by the RAW that he can make a trip attempt with EVERY shot, and still do normal damage with the same number of attacks per round. This smells of cheese, am I right with my interpretation?
ARandomGod
First Post
..Darklone said:Monks still retain their Wis bonus to AC while being flatfooted... right? That's something
Ranged sneak attackin rogues don't care for their rogue levels, either the target is immune (Uncanny Dodge) or not.
OOh, this is TRUE.
You know, I've always allowed the first attack against someone to be a sneak attack even with uncanny dodge, assuming that the person was surprised... (While allowing the person to keep Dex to AC, of course)
But, of course, Uncanny Dodge is explicitly forbidding that, isn't it?
On the other hand, I like that, so I think I'll keep doing it.
I've always seen sneak attacks as working if the target was flatfooted, even if the target gets to keep dex to AC.
I mean, sneak attack shouldn't be reduced to nothing. As powerful as it is, it still should work for the first attack of combat, against somone you actually did surprise. Like it did in the old days, when that was the ONLY thing it could do.
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