Help me build a versatile Sorcerer

uzagi_akimbo · May 3, 2004

Li Shenron said:
Thanks to all for the spells suggestions so far!

Now some more considerations about my spell selection.

- Thanee you are very convincing about Polymorph , if it replicates flight then I can drop Fly at least; I can also think to drop Disguise Self but I am not sure because the duration may be a winner here, especially if extended

- I may consider to actually drop one of the damaging spells! What if I keep Magic Missile and Lightning Bolt and drop the Scorching Ray? Or alternatively, drop LB and wait for Firebrand? Is there really a need for more than a couple damaging spells at this point, beside the fact of having more damage types at my disposal? Also, I could buy a wand or two with spells of a different damage type!

- thanks a lot to the guy who suggested Hairy Spider as familiar! Incidentally, I was kind of neutral on the familiars because there is none I would prefer more than the others at this level (except the improved ones, but I won't take the feats). Darkvision is -just- what I need, and the spider will save me a precious spell. Also, perhaps drows won't easily try to kill their goddess' favored creature

I will post a revised list soon.

As for the damaging spells - consider two points.
a) Speaking from my experience, in many situations it is as important as to have a choice in which way/shape to deal damage with spells, as it is as to what type of damage you deal. Fireball for example is tricky to place, especially in confined quarters if you do not want to roast your allies in the bargain, Lightning bolt is rather precise due to its "line" area, but more difficult to hit multiple targets with. Scorching Ray is a great level vs damage deal, but has the problem that it requires a ranged touch attack, which might pose a problem with high Dex+dodge+deflection targets, even more if a target is close combat. And there are some type of opposition where you just might need an area, non-precision form of elemental damage - like swarms etc.
If you take the "Energy Substituion" feat, make sure you have at least one spell doing acid or fire damage to finish of regenerating stuff like trolls with some certainty. Also take into account the easier save on lower level attack spells - which 'Scorching Ray' and 'Magic missile' do not have, and Shatterfloor at least relegates to the Will save, with some advantages.
If you cannot take "Firebrand" yet, I would recommend the following set of damage spells in your arsenal - "Magic Missile", "Scorching Ray" and "Shatterfloor" - replace "Scorching Ray" once you get "Firebrand", if you want. Another point to observe is that 'Magic missiles' do not prenetrate 'Shield' spells - a pretty common spell. Maybe "Horikaul's Boom" (1st level arcane, MoF, Sonic, up to 5D4, no save vs damage) could work out as an alternative.

As for "Invisibility" and "Greater Invisibility" - both are great utility spells, admitted, but...... please consider that you are heading into the Underdark, a realm of eternal night, where the natural 'wildlife' will have adapted to the lack of light. Read - you might encounter a fair number of monsters/creatures who have 'blindsight', 'blindsense', 'tremorsense', 'scent' or similar means of determining your position without the need for visible light.... rendering the "invisibility" line of spells less useful than above ground.

As for "Fly" - yes "Polymorph" can replace "Fly" very nicely... if you have a lot of space to manouevre, that is. Be sure to pick some form with high mobility in flight if you go spelunking in caves - to avoid collisions with walls etc.

As for the 'hairy spider' - have fun !

Thanee · May 3, 2004

uzagi_akimbo said:
If you want darkvision cheaply and rather permanently - get yourself a 'hairy spider' familiar (page 27, FRCS), which confers 'darkvision' to its master - often overlooked.....

Where does it say that the master gains darkvision?

The table only says "poisonous bite, darkvision" which simply means the spider has a poisonous bite and darkvision.

That's just the same redundant listing as with the low-light vision ability of the owl (all animals have low-light vision, so why state it?). It doesn't say, as the owl does, "has ...", tho. But it doesn't say "master gains ..." either. I think it's pretty certain, that a hairy spider does not grant its master darkvision (it doesn't even state a range, there is no generic darkvision abilitiy like that).

Or is there any other rule or FAQ or whatnot, which says it does?

Bye
Thanee

Thanee · May 3, 2004

Fly inside confined space? Pixie works great!

About those damage spells...

Magic Missile is a force effect, which is basically the only reason why to learn it (works against incorporeal and ethereal). It's a good spell, but the force effect is the main advantage to me. Automatic hit is a bonus and can be very useful at times, too.

In a recent adventure, this spell saved the day (because of auto-hit, tho

), when we encountered two will-o'-the-wisps. Our fighters couldn't hit the damn things and my sorceress dropped them both with (partially empowered) Magic Missiles.

Scorching Ray is the best damaging spell you'll find for quite a while. It can out-damage the higher level spells on a single target, thanks to metamagic (Empower Spell), but loses against multiple targets, of course. The touch attack can be annoying, but most often, it's not much of a problem, if you have a decent Dex score. Against large targets, you usually do not even have the penalty for shooting in melee, if your party members show some care to not interfere with your targeting (you only need to target one square that is not adjacent to an ally).

It's probably the most-used spell of my sorceress (currently 8th level). I had almost no problems with the touch attacks so far. And damage can be so much higher than Magic Missile (last game I did 44 points of damage with one casting (non-empowered, no crit rolled

) - ok, now that's not really average...).

If anything, I'd drop the area effect, personally, and wait for 10th and get Firebrand by then (or do as I said above, pick an area effect now (i.e. Shatterfloor or Lightning Bolt) and swap it out at 10th). An area effect spell is great, but you don't really need it.

Bye
Thanee

Li Shenron · May 4, 2004

Thanee said:
Where does it say that the master gains darkvision?

That would have probably been too good :heh:

I haven't checked the FRCS yet.

What could be the ways of getting a permanent Darkvision? Which magic items grant it? In fact, I would have played a Dwarf or Half-Orc for Darkvision alone, but both have a Cha penalty.

Li Shenron · May 4, 2004

Thanee said:
About those damage spells...

An area effect spell is great, but you don't really need it.

I don't know, why do you say that? Scorching Ray can be cast at more targets IIRC, one ray each, but of course the damage gets split which means that unless you KNOW the targets are very weak, you'd rather cast it whole against the same. Fireball/Lightning Bolt still do quite a lot of damage even if used against 1 single target, but if you take more foes in the area that's much more total damage done by one spell.

It's another touch choice. This is good, it means that both choices are positive and balanced.

Diirk · May 4, 2004

Thanee said:
Scorching Ray is the best damaging spell you'll find for quite a while. It can out-damage the higher level spells on a single target, thanks to metamagic (Empower Spell), but loses against multiple targets, of course. The touch attack can be annoying, but most often, it's not much of a problem, if you have a decent Dex score. Against large targets, you usually do not even have the penalty for shooting in melee, if your party members show some care to not interfere with your targeting (you only need to target one square that is not adjacent to an ally).

"Shooting or Throwing into a Melee: If you shoot or throw a ranged weapon at a target engaged in melee with a friendly character, you take a –4 penalty on your attack roll. Two characters are engaged in melee if they are enemies of each other and either threatens the other. (An unconscious or otherwise immobilized character is not considered engaged unless he is actually being attacked.)
If your target (or the part of your target you’re aiming at, if it’s a big target) is at least 10 feet away from the nearest friendly character, you can avoid the –4 penalty, even if the creature you’re aiming at is engaged in melee with a friendly character."

At least 10 feet.. so if the target is large sized and there are fighters adjacent to it, you can't avoid the -4 without precise shot. Against Huge or bigger its alot easier. (The furthest square on a large creature from someone adjacent to it is only 5 feet away from them).

Thanee · May 4, 2004

Erm, all non-adjacent squares the large creature is in are 10' away of the fighters.

Like this...

FB <-- Fighter and Barbarian
LL <-- 5' away
LL <-- 10' away

Now if you want to argue, that the upper portion of the rear square is only 5' 1" away from the lower portion of the square your allies are in, then I would target the spell at the lower portion of the square.

You have to measure from the same point (i.e. center of each square).

Bye
Thanee

Thanee · May 4, 2004

Li, there's a pair of lenses, which grant darkvision in the DMG (goggles of night?). They are not overly expensive. That's what I meant somewhere above, when I said you can drop bought armor for Mage Armor and then buy an item of darkvision and in turn drop Darkvision, if you get Polymorph, which allows you to drop Disguise Self.

BTW, headband of disguise is only 1,800gp. Disguise Self at will, if you need more duration.

About area effect: Sure they are useful, and even very useful at times, but you won't be completely useless without, you can still zap the nastier targets with Scorching Ray and leave the masses of mooks for other party members, or split the Scorching Ray to kill two at a time.

You can't afford to have it all, something must be dropped with such a narrow spell selection and an area effect damaging spell doesn't add that much to your selection, if you already have a single target damaging spell.

A spell that does something completely new is probably a better choice (i.e. Slow - also a multiple target spell).

If you face a horde of weak opponents, polymorph into annis hag and rip them apart with your 3 attacks / round.

Bye
Thanee

Plane Sailing · May 4, 2004

My sorcerer has just reached 11th level, and I'm happy to share some of my observations with you.

1. Definitely try to get some conjuration spells in the mix, since they ignore spell resistance. Evards Black Tentacles will really spoil the day for a bunch of drow.

2. Pyrotechnics is often overlooked, but it is a fantastic spell. It is one of the few spells which still has two modes of operation, and you can target your opponents will save or fort save. As long as you have a fire source to zap with the spell the fireworks have a huge area of effect for potentially blinding foes for 2-5r, or the smoke which can cost them Str and Dex and always obscures vision (even darkvision).

3. Another spell which is utterly brilliant for sorcerers is the 2nd level False Life. at 8th level you can pre-cast it for 1d10+8 temp hit points which will last for hours - a fantastic buffer against damage. If you have empower spell you can use a 4th level slot to give youself 13-27 extra hit points.

4. I've found Telekinesis to be an absolutely kicking 5th level spell. Use it in "combat action" mode to grapple an opposing spellcaster. Especially good if you've got some rogue buddies who can then get their sneak attacks for free against them

Cheers

Thanee · May 4, 2004

Plane Sailing said:
3. Another spell which is utterly brilliant for sorcerers is the 2nd level False Life. at 8th level you can pre-cast it for 1d10+8 temp hit points which will last for hours - a fantastic buffer against damage. If you have empower spell you can use a 4th level slot to give youself 13-27 extra hit points.

Yep, I'm using that spell quite excessively as well!

Currently I have +27 temporary hit points (8th level, rolled a 10 on the empowered False Life) written on my character sheet!

Bye
Thanee