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MacBeth,
Just finished [quickly] reading through your work. I did like it, but it didn't really draw me. And, to me, the thematic ending was a little weak. And the sledgehammer at the end telling us how Micheal felt [did you choose Micheal for the ArcAngel of war?] rather than a showing that we could interpret didn't work for me.
As for picture use:
I felt that the need to pull in the pictures drove the story, rather than being a part of it. If that makes sense. Don't get me wrong, I liked the picture usage, but I felt the story was pulled off the tracks by them.
1) God being the little boy. I actually really liked this and thought it worked well.
2) Mysteries: I liked the explanation but I wanted to see him use them. Like open the book to find out about Gaberial. Use the picture to find the goat. Etc. QUESTION: Did he have to return the relics with God being back?
3) The sword/Japanese girl. Didn't work for me. The idea of Gaberial pullling souls and that soul in particular is the major example of pictures derailing the story.
4) The bloody goat. I really wanted to see him getting into the sacrifice, not being told that he was. I think the image worked, but since there was NO effect on Micheal or God, it was again, to me, a picture use derailing the story and not fully contributing.
5) Grandma. I liked this picture use. The wrinkles comment really worked for me. I would have liked her to test him. And I agree that if she KNEW how to release God but didn't then she's a twit. IF you explain that she couldn't because she married into the family, that would help [i'm assuming here]
Those are the ones I remember, I think I'm missing one. Let me know.
But, overall, I liked the story. Forgive the constant hitting on show versus tell. It is something that was pointed out to me in my stories and now I'm seeing it everywhere. *sigh*
Zhaneel
Just finished [quickly] reading through your work. I did like it, but it didn't really draw me. And, to me, the thematic ending was a little weak. And the sledgehammer at the end telling us how Micheal felt [did you choose Micheal for the ArcAngel of war?] rather than a showing that we could interpret didn't work for me.
As for picture use:
I felt that the need to pull in the pictures drove the story, rather than being a part of it. If that makes sense. Don't get me wrong, I liked the picture usage, but I felt the story was pulled off the tracks by them.
1) God being the little boy. I actually really liked this and thought it worked well.
2) Mysteries: I liked the explanation but I wanted to see him use them. Like open the book to find out about Gaberial. Use the picture to find the goat. Etc. QUESTION: Did he have to return the relics with God being back?
3) The sword/Japanese girl. Didn't work for me. The idea of Gaberial pullling souls and that soul in particular is the major example of pictures derailing the story.
4) The bloody goat. I really wanted to see him getting into the sacrifice, not being told that he was. I think the image worked, but since there was NO effect on Micheal or God, it was again, to me, a picture use derailing the story and not fully contributing.
5) Grandma. I liked this picture use. The wrinkles comment really worked for me. I would have liked her to test him. And I agree that if she KNEW how to release God but didn't then she's a twit. IF you explain that she couldn't because she married into the family, that would help [i'm assuming here]
Those are the ones I remember, I think I'm missing one. Let me know.
But, overall, I liked the story. Forgive the constant hitting on show versus tell. It is something that was pointed out to me in my stories and now I'm seeing it everywhere. *sigh*
Zhaneel
BSF
Explorer
My feeling is that Macbeth is going to get dinged on show vs tell as well. I have taken rebukes for that as well and I still have a hard time working around it. 
I will stand by liking the picture use for Yoshimay Kurosawa. But, I will say that I think I understand why you feel it derails the story. For me, that particular soul usage reminded me of a scene in C.S. Lewis' "The Last Battle" in the Chronicles of Narnia. I asked Macbeth about it last night before gaming and I did pick up what he was trying to allude at. Of course, I do know Macbeth as more than a screen name, so it might be easier to pick up these things.
In fact, that is my primary reason for reiterating my "like" for that picture. If the allusions of that picture were not picked up on a broad level, then ultimately the picture usage was a failure. So, for Macbeth, it is important for him to hear the difference in opinion so he can try to strengthen his writing from it.
As to what he was trying to allude to, I will leave that up to Macbeth to comment on if he chooses to. Though, he is just finishing the semester and will probably be a sporadic presence on the boards for a couple of weeks. Still, I know he will find a way to check to see if there are any judgements.
I will stand by liking the picture use for Yoshimay Kurosawa. But, I will say that I think I understand why you feel it derails the story. For me, that particular soul usage reminded me of a scene in C.S. Lewis' "The Last Battle" in the Chronicles of Narnia. I asked Macbeth about it last night before gaming and I did pick up what he was trying to allude at. Of course, I do know Macbeth as more than a screen name, so it might be easier to pick up these things.
In fact, that is my primary reason for reiterating my "like" for that picture. If the allusions of that picture were not picked up on a broad level, then ultimately the picture usage was a failure. So, for Macbeth, it is important for him to hear the difference in opinion so he can try to strengthen his writing from it.
As to what he was trying to allude to, I will leave that up to Macbeth to comment on if he chooses to. Though, he is just finishing the semester and will probably be a sporadic presence on the boards for a couple of weeks. Still, I know he will find a way to check to see if there are any judgements.
mythago
Hero
It's always interesting how people have different takes/likes/dislikes on a story--I was struck in the last round how the one thing Piratecat really liked was the one thing arwink absolutely hated.
I agree it would be better if Grandma's "say thank you" were more ambiguous. I took it as Grandma insisting on politeness, and Michael suddenly being struck as to how that would solve his situation, rather than Grandma knowing the solution and hinting at it. But I could see how it could read the other way too.
But you can see it when it pops up in your own stuff now, and that's definitely a plus.
I agree it would be better if Grandma's "say thank you" were more ambiguous. I took it as Grandma insisting on politeness, and Michael suddenly being struck as to how that would solve his situation, rather than Grandma knowing the solution and hinting at it. But I could see how it could read the other way too.
Occupational hazard of being a writer.Zhaneel said:
But you can see it when it pops up in your own stuff now, and that's definitely a plus.
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Review of Mythago's story
Interesting. You never fail to surprise me with the breadth of types of stories you go after. The German occult story is getting [IMO] a little overdone in the media, but I'll forgive you. ;-)
I feel the story was well told, but the ending was a little disappointing. Like maybe there wasn't quite enough time to fully give it the energy it needed. I dunno, I may be projecting again but it seemed like the ending was a little too easy. I didn't feel there was a struggle.
There were some PoV problem [I think more just missing words to put things in context] and I had a hard time keeping the two hit men differentiated.
On picture use: I think it worked well. I liked that you included the extra items from mystery & that some of the pieces played a part throughout the story. I felt that Jakod's intro & picture use there were weak... reminding me of Vritra's Return and the complaints I had there. I liked the sword-wielding pic very much. The "one step" [which I forgot for Macbeth] was pretty good, but I just don't liek the pic. The piano portion of the Texan's story didn't quite work for me. I find it interesting that both you & Macbeth chose basically the same thing for the nun pic.
Overall, I liked this story. I've seen stronger from you in terms of picture usage.
I'm not sure which I liked better. They are both very good and very seperate in my head. Interested to see where this goes.
Zhaneel
Interesting. You never fail to surprise me with the breadth of types of stories you go after. The German occult story is getting [IMO] a little overdone in the media, but I'll forgive you. ;-)
I feel the story was well told, but the ending was a little disappointing. Like maybe there wasn't quite enough time to fully give it the energy it needed. I dunno, I may be projecting again but it seemed like the ending was a little too easy. I didn't feel there was a struggle.
There were some PoV problem [I think more just missing words to put things in context] and I had a hard time keeping the two hit men differentiated.
On picture use: I think it worked well. I liked that you included the extra items from mystery & that some of the pieces played a part throughout the story. I felt that Jakod's intro & picture use there were weak... reminding me of Vritra's Return and the complaints I had there. I liked the sword-wielding pic very much. The "one step" [which I forgot for Macbeth] was pretty good, but I just don't liek the pic. The piano portion of the Texan's story didn't quite work for me. I find it interesting that both you & Macbeth chose basically the same thing for the nun pic.
Overall, I liked this story. I've seen stronger from you in terms of picture usage.
I'm not sure which I liked better. They are both very good and very seperate in my head. Interested to see where this goes.
Zhaneel
mythago
Hero
Thanks for the feedback. I think the ending suffered a little from the enormous headache I developed around page 10, and the fact that I was trying to avoid turning it into a room-by-room battle through the hospital--which, in retrospect, might have actually been more interesting.
The German occult story is getting [IMO] a little overdone in the media
Absolutely. I deliberately wanted to do a two-fisted action/adventure/pulp story, with the plain-spoken All American guy and the witty Brit fighting evil Nazis bent on using sinister Things Man Was Not Meant to Know to take over the free world, etc. etc. I wanted to do it straight (i.e. not as a parody) yet still make it interesting.
The German occult story is getting [IMO] a little overdone in the media
Absolutely. I deliberately wanted to do a two-fisted action/adventure/pulp story, with the plain-spoken All American guy and the witty Brit fighting evil Nazis bent on using sinister Things Man Was Not Meant to Know to take over the free world, etc. etc. I wanted to do it straight (i.e. not as a parody) yet still make it interesting.
Macbeth
First Post
Whew. All I can say about the critizisms of my story: mea culpa. I know that there were some serious problems, incosistencies and showing vs. telling chief amog them. To be honest, I just sisn't have a whole lot of inspiration left. I was tired, and I put out the best I could. I know there are problems, and thanks for the feedback. Hopefully next Cermic DM I'll have enough energy to follow through the whole thing, but so many things were going on I just burnt out. I'm intersted to see how this turns out.
Macbeth said:
No apologies. It was a good story. It was the best you could do under the constraints of the contest, and I, for one, enjoyed reading it.
Remember what PC said. Don't apologize for your works. The critism is how to make it better, not "omg what a horrible story."
I'm not afraid of saying that, if it is true. It was not true for any of your stories.
Zhaneel
Sialia
First Post
I enjoyed reading both stories.
I especially liked Macbeth's use of "Grief" and Mythago's use of "The First Mystery."
(I promised Piratecat I'd tell him what Grief actually was a picture of after the stories and judging were all in, and would only tell him up front that it was a painting from real life.
Oddly enough, while both the subject of Grief and I remember the moment in which I painted it very clearly, neither of us can now recall what led us to that particularly awful moment.)
I thought Mythago's story ocasionally suffered from stopping forward action to pick up too much backstory. I'd have liked the flashback to "grief" better if it had become relevant again at a later point in the story--if I had needed to know that particular piece of history to get to the ending. Perhaps if it had been broken into several scattered pieces through the tale so that the whole picture didn't really come together until some critical juncture. Strongest assets of the story were the attention to locale and culture--I asked for a story that could distinguish between New Jersey and Ohio, and I got that and change to spare.
Picky, tiny detail for Macbeth--the sacrifice probably should have been done with a super sharp knife across the throat, rather than a disembowelling. But blood sprinkled everywhere is right on. Good picture usage--I liked the way you saw the altar and the blood in the inkblot.
I especially liked Macbeth's use of "Grief" and Mythago's use of "The First Mystery."
(I promised Piratecat I'd tell him what Grief actually was a picture of after the stories and judging were all in, and would only tell him up front that it was a painting from real life.
Oddly enough, while both the subject of Grief and I remember the moment in which I painted it very clearly, neither of us can now recall what led us to that particularly awful moment.)
I thought Mythago's story ocasionally suffered from stopping forward action to pick up too much backstory. I'd have liked the flashback to "grief" better if it had become relevant again at a later point in the story--if I had needed to know that particular piece of history to get to the ending. Perhaps if it had been broken into several scattered pieces through the tale so that the whole picture didn't really come together until some critical juncture. Strongest assets of the story were the attention to locale and culture--I asked for a story that could distinguish between New Jersey and Ohio, and I got that and change to spare.
Picky, tiny detail for Macbeth--the sacrifice probably should have been done with a super sharp knife across the throat, rather than a disembowelling. But blood sprinkled everywhere is right on. Good picture usage--I liked the way you saw the altar and the blood in the inkblot.
mythago
Hero
What can I say? Those guys just wouldn't shut up when I wanted them to.
I also have a habit of putting backstory in italics or 'flashback sections' and really wanted to avoid that--I wanted the characters to tell their story, not simply to jump back into their minds.
The 'mystery' picture was really the heart of the story. I liked being able to put things in the photo (the gold-stamped title) that you couldn't see in the illustration, and taking items out of it to be used later.
I hope I'm not coming off as sounding defensive--I appreciate all the comments, I'm trying to explain what was going on in my head rather than say "Your criticism is wrong!"
I also have a habit of putting backstory in italics or 'flashback sections' and really wanted to avoid that--I wanted the characters to tell their story, not simply to jump back into their minds.
The 'mystery' picture was really the heart of the story. I liked being able to put things in the photo (the gold-stamped title) that you couldn't see in the illustration, and taking items out of it to be used later.
I hope I'm not coming off as sounding defensive--I appreciate all the comments, I'm trying to explain what was going on in my head rather than say "Your criticism is wrong!"
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