[Complete Divine] Radiant Servant of Pelor is too powerful.

Olive · May 18, 2004

(Psi)SeveredHead said:
And I will translate this as "they're trying to write PrCs without a real cost".

Not being a cleric player, I'm not sure about this for clerics but I do know that for wizards you can have a real cost and still give +10 levels of epll casting. Loosing the feats hurts bad.

(Psi)SeveredHead · May 18, 2004

Olive said:
Not being a cleric player, I'm not sure about this for clerics but I do know that for wizards you can have a real cost and still give +10 levels of epll casting. Loosing the feats hurts bad.

Many (most?) wizard PrCs I've seen give back something worth way more than 2 or 3 feats. Most cleric PrCs do the same thing, and unlike wizard PrCs I've only seen two underpowered cleric PrCs.

One is that chaos cleric PrC in Complete Divine that gives out a totally useless ability to control a sphere of annihilation and also gives you immunity to that... how often does the sphere actually show up in a campaign? Certainly not until the really high levels. And for that you also give uop five caster levels. It seems there will never be a happy medium.

ForceUser · May 18, 2004

Count Arioch the 28t · May 20, 2004

I beleive that you should lose caster levels if the PrC gives you mroe than what you had before.

However, 1 or 2 levels is far from a token cost, it's pretty high when it comes to penetrating SR. Those 1 or 2 levels could make the difference from useful to useless real quick.

If you lose 9th level spells, then you should gain an equal, but different ability.

FireLance · May 20, 2004

Count Arioch the 28t said:
However, 1 or 2 levels is far from a token cost, it's pretty high when it comes to penetrating SR. Those 1 or 2 levels could make the difference from useful to useless real quick.

Practised Spellcaster from Complete Divine allows you to overcome up to 4 levels worth of SR penetration and level-dependent spell variables at the cost of a feat and 4 ranks of Spellcraft.

(Psi)SeveredHead · May 20, 2004

Count Arioch the 28t said:
I beleive that you should lose caster levels if the PrC gives you mroe than what you had before.

However, 1 or 2 levels is far from a token cost, it's pretty high when it comes to penetrating SR. Those 1 or 2 levels could make the difference from useful to useless real quick.

If you lose 9th level spells, then you should gain an equal, but different ability.

If you only give up one or two levels, you won't lose 9th-level spells.

I know giving up a caster level is harsh; you could lose 3 high-level spells that way. As a result, you should expect to gain some powerful benefits for it.

Just nothing like breaking the metacap

or save DC boosts.

However, I've yet to see a cost for a PrC that will match losing a caster level or two.

Dr_Rictus · May 21, 2004

ForceUser said:
I cracked open my new CD Friday night, and lo & behold the RSoP looks like it was cut-&-pasted from Dragon magazine.

Just for the record, according to the description in this thread, the class actually did change in several ways:

1) No requirement of 3 ranks in Knowledge (undead), that skill having been folded into Knowledge (religion). That's a savings of 6 skill points, typically, by the core rules.

2) Knowledge (religion) rank requirement reduced from 9 to 8, saving a skill point and making the class accessible 1 level earlier.

3) Sun domain made a requirement, instead of merely having the Extra Greater Turning ability unusable without it.

4) Extra domain becoming a prestige domain, rather than simply another from among the domains normally available to clerics of Pelor.

Those were the changes I spotted just offhand.

Dr_Rictus · May 21, 2004

ForceUser said:
If you cast a cure spell 1,000 times over the course of a campaign, you've healed 1,000 extra hit points you wouldn't have healed without this domain. That is powerful.

Say it's 1,000 hit points. That is the average number of hit points contained in 182 charges worth of cure light wounds wands. Total savings: 2,727 gp, or enough for a spare +1 weapon with some change left over.

In combat, even with mass cure spells, you're only healing a particular target once per round at most, so with D&D tuned to combats lasting 3 or 4 rounds, that's 3 or 4 hit points worth of difference in whether a given person lives through that fight. How useful that is, I'll leave to opinion.

I know these points were made above, but I find the math tends to illustrate them better.

The Souljourner · May 21, 2004

Dr_Rictus said:
4) Extra domain becoming a prestige domain, rather than simply another from among the domains normally available to clerics of Pelor.

There's no such thing as prestige domains any more. The domains in Complete Divine are available as normal domains to the appropriate clerics. At least, unless I missed something. They're definitely not called prestige domains.

-The Souljourner

Kwyn · May 21, 2004

Knowledge (religion) rank requirement reduced from 9 to 8

It's 9

Glory and Purification are offered at 5th level. Purification is not a Pelor domain. So, I suppose, for the RSoP, it becomes a prestige domain.

If you have this class in another campaign setting, following the adjustment suggestions, both Glory and Purification are likely to become domain options at level 5 that you wouldn't have otherwise, since at this point, only the Greyhawk gods are listed for the new domains.