New Class (XPH): Primalist - Seeking comments





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    ψ Ignore Khaalis

    New Class (XPH): Primalist - Seeking comments

    This class is a cross-breed of base classes (manifesters vs. power users) and turning the ideal of the Pyro into a full class, but focused on all of the primal kinetic energies, not just fire. Currently my thoughts are to reduce the Power Points by half again, but I am hoping to receive some feedback before I tweak anything further. Thanks in advance.


    Edit Revision 6.9

    PRIMALIST

    Primalists are also known as primists or even occasionally elementalists. Primalists are walking powerhouses and cosmic focus points for kinetic elemental power. The raw primal power of the elemental energy that can be released by the psychokinesis discipline is a strong draw to many who exhibit psionic power. Primalists, unlike psychokinetisists, focus completely on the primal forces of kinetic energy without expanding into the other disciplines. They find power and utility in the primal force of kinetic energy and revel in it.
    ……….Primalists are similar to and often confused with other psionic classes, but once the full force of their kinetic powers are revealed there is often little question left as to the nature of their training. Primalists lack the versatility and shear power of the psion as well as the surging power capability of the wilder, and though they share the soulknife’s ability to bring forth a psionic weapon, they share little else in common with that psionic practitioner. The primalist is a unique blend of psionic power practitioner and focused psionic ability manifester.

    Adventures: Adventuring and quests are the primary opportunity for the primalist to grow their skills. They are flamboyant and confident in their powers and often have trouble restraining themselves from wreaking havoc and destruction whenever possible. They fear little and use their psionic talents against whatever obstacles confront them. Each primalist’s motivation and place in society is very different though good primalists are driven by the need to prove themselves as worthy of respect and not fear. They aid those in need and fight for noble causes. Evil primalists, as with most evil beings, see themselves as superior and use their power for their own ends regardless of how it impacts others. Many also seek to destroy and wreak havoc upon those they see as lesser beings.

    Characteristics: Primalists are masters of primal kinetic energies. They are passionate about their power and push themselves hard to attain mastery of the primal kinetic energies they command. Though they do not have the scalable power of an arcane caster’s spells, they retain more flexibility in their ability to manipulate kinetic energies. They walk a fine line of balance between their single minded pursuit of mastering primal kinetic energy and being a valuable and adaptable member of an adventuring group.

    Alignment: Primalists seek to become one with the primal kinetic energies of the universe. These powers are most often violent, unpredictable and destructive. Primalists may thus not be lawful in their aspects and views toward life and the universe.

    Religion: Primalists are not particularly drawn to any deity as they see the kinetic energies as a simple part of the universe. Those that do choose to follow a deity generally conform to deities of chaos, nature, energy and destruction, but there are no specific restrictions.

    Background: Primalists develop their powers almost as an epiphany, generally through some traumatic experience with the primal forces, such as drowning, burning, burial in a landslide, falling from a great height, etc. Occasionally primalists are self-taught similar to wilders, through force of circumstance. Primalists recognize each other as fellows of power. Some feel a kinship with others of their kind, while other primalists see fellow manifesters as competition to be conquered.

    Races: Primalists come from all walks of life and all races though certain races lend themselves to natural talent as a primalist such as the maenads, elves and humans.

    Other Classes: Primalists get on well with anyone who can appreciate their mastery of the primal kinetic forces such as fighter and psychic warrior types, and especially arcane casters such as battle casters and war priests. They do not get along so well with Psions, who see the primalist as an undisciplined and untrained manifester, similar to their view of wilders. Psychokineticists however, are the closest to an akin manifester as the primalist has though even among these two groups there are rivalries and envy of the other’s talents and advantages.

    Role: A primalist’s power makes them a good addition to any party, especially those in need of combat oriented members or those lacking access to a wizard or sorcerer.

    GAME RULE INFORMATION
    Primalists have the following game statistics.
    Abilities: Charisma determines how powerful a primalist’s powers can manifest and how hard those powers are to resist. Constitution is also important to the primalist as they become hardened to the kinetic energies. Dexterity and Strength aid in the primalists combat abilities and Intelligence rounds out the primalist’s learning skills.
    Alignment: Any Non-Lawful
    Hit Die: d6
    Starting Gold: 4d4X10gp

    CLASS SKILLS
    The primalist’s class skills are: Autohypnosis, Climb, Concentration, Craft, Escape Artist, Intimidate, Jump, Knowledge (Psionics), Listen, Profession, Psicraft, Spot, Survival and Swim.
    Skill Points for 1st Level: (4+INT modifier) x4
    Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4+INT modifier

    BAB: Medium (Cleric)
    Saves: Fortitude & Will Good

    Special………………………………………PP/D……….Powers Known………..Max.Lv.
    1 - Primal Weapon…………………………. ………....1……….……….……….1……….……….……….1st
    2 – Adaptation……………………………….. ………...3……….……….……….2……….……….……….1st
    3 - ----- …………………………………………………....6……….……….……….3……….……….……….1 st
    4 - Primal Bolt……………………………………………...9……….……….……….3……….……….………. 2nd
    5 - ----- …………………………………………..……....13……….……….………4……….……….………. 2nd
    6 – Primal Nimbus……….……….……….…………....18……….……….………4……….……….…… ….3rd
    7 - ----- …………………………………………..…….....23……….……….…….5……….……….……… .3rd
    8 – Primal Aurora……….……….……….……….…....29……….……….………5……….……….… …….4th
    9 - ----- …………………………………………..…….....36……….……….…….6……….……….……… .4th
    10 – Primal Transport……….……….……….……...44……….……….………6……….……….…… ….5th
    11 - ----- …………………………………………..….....53……….……….……..7……….……….……… .5th
    12 – Improved Adaptation……….……….……....63……….……….……….7……….……….……… .6th
    13 - ----- …………………………………………..….....74……….……….……..8……….……….……… .6th
    14 – Greater Primal Nimbus……….……….……...85……….……….……….8……….……….……….7th
    15 - ----- …………………………………………..…....98……….……….……….9……….……….………. 7th
    16 - Inundation……….……….……….……….….....111……….……….…….9……… .……….……….8th
    17 - ----- …………………………………………..…....125……….……….…….10……….……….……… .8th
    18 – Primal Fury………………………………………....140……….……….…….10……….……….……… .9th
    19 - ----- …………………………………………..…....156……….……….…….11……….……….……… .9th
    20 – Metamorphosis, Greater Adaptation…..172……….……….………11……….……….……….9th

    CLASS FEATURES
    All of the following are class features for the primalist.
    Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Primalists are proficient with all simple weapons, with their own primal weapon, and with light armors and shields (except tower shields).

    Power Points/Day: A primalist’s ability to manifest powers is limited by the power points they have available. Their base daily allotment of power points is given on the table above. In addition, they receive bonus power points per day if they have a high Charisma score (see Table: Ability Modifiers and Bonus Power Points in the Expanded Psionic Handbook). Their race may also provide bonus power points per day, as may certain feats and items. A 1st-level primalist gains one power point for his class level, and gains bonus power points (if they are entitled to any), and can manifest the single power they know with those power points.
    Powers Known: A primalist begins play knowing one primalist power of their choice. Each time they achieve a new level, they unlocks the knowledge of a new power. Choose the powers known from the primalist power list. (Exception: The feats Expanded Knowledge and Epic Expanded Knowledge do allow a primalist to learn powers from the lists of other classes.)
    ………..A primalist can manifest any power that has a power point cost equal to or lower than their manifester level. The total number of powers a primalist can manifest in a day is limited only by their daily power points. A primalist simply knows their powers; they are ingrained in their mind. They do not need to prepare them (in the way that some spellcasters prepare their spells), though they must get a good night’s sleep each day to regain all of their spent power points.
    ………..The Difficulty Class for saving throws against primalist powers is 10 + the power’s level + the primalist’s Charisma modifier.
    Maximum Power Level Known: A primalist begins play with the ability to learn 1st-level powers. As they attain higher levels, they may gain the ability to master more complex powers. To learn or manifest a power, a primalist must have a Charisma score of at least 10 + the power’s level.

    Primal Weapon (Su): As a move action, a primalist may create a semisolid weapon composed of primal kinetic energy. The primal weapon’s manifestation type is chosen at 1st level and must be a specific weapon type that may be any light or single-handed simple or martial melee weapon. This weapon type may not be changed once it is chosen. The primal weapon manifests as a typical weapon of appropriate size for the primalist and acts as a normal weapon of the chosen type in regards to damage, critical threat range, etc. with the exception that the damage dealt is of an energy type chosen by the primalist at the time of the weapon’s manifestation.
    ………..At 1st level the primalist can choose one energy type to manifest from cold, electricity or fire. At 5th and 10th level they may choose another energy type that they may manifest at will from cold, electricity or fire. At 15th level the primalist also gains the sonic energy type as a manifestation energy choice.
    ………..The energy type chosen at manifestation cannot be changed without dissipating the weapon and re-manifesting the weapon. The weapon deals no damage to the primalist and it remains active until it is released, immediately dissipating if the primalist releases their grip on the weapon (free action).
    ………..Note that a primalist that is smaller or larger than Medium create primal weapons appropriate to their size, with the corresponding change to damage (see Tables 7-4 and 7-5 of the Player’s Handbook). Primalists gain the usual benefits to attack and damage rolls from a high Strength bonus. A primal weapon is considered a magic weapon for overcoming damage reduction.
    ………..The primal weapon can be sundered (hardness 10 and 10 hit points) and disarmed; however, a primalist can simply create another on their next round as a move equivalent action.
    ………..Primalists may use feats such as Weapon Focus and Power Attack just as if the primal weapon were a normal weapon of its type. Powers and spells that upgrade weapons (such as the Psionic Weapon feat) can be used on the primal weapon.

    Adaptation (Ex): At 2nd level, a primalist becomes resistant to kinetic energy sources gaining a +4 bonus on all saving throws against cold, electricity, fire and sonic spells and effects.

    Primal Bolt (Ps): At 4th level, as a standard action, a primalist may launch a bolt of psionically manifested kinetic energy (cold, electricity, fore or sonic) at any target within 60 feet and in line of sight. This effect is treated as a ranged touch attack and deals 1d6 damage per 2 primalist class levels. The primalist determines the nature of the energy of each bolt manifested. A bolt of sonic energy deals –1 point of damage per die but ignores an object’s hardness.

    Primal Nimbus (Ps): At 6th level and higher the primalist can activate this ability as a move-equivalent action. A nimbus of energy (cold, electricity, fire or sonic – chosen at the time of manifestation) that harms neither the primalist nor the weapon, engulfs the weapon the primalist is holding at the time (which can be a projectile as well as their primal weapon). The affected weapon deals an additional 2d6 points of energy damage on a successful hit. The weapon retains the effect as long as the primalist wields it. Note that multiple energy types may be activated onto one weapon in this manner if used on a primal weapon (example: A fire energy primal weapon with an electricity nimbus).

    Primal Aurora (Ps): At 8th level, a primalist can activate this ability as a move-equivalent action. An energy aurora (cold, electricity, fire or sonic – chosen at the time of manifestation) that harms neither the primalist nor their equipment engulfs their entire body. While sheathed in this energy they gain a +2 bonus to Intimidate skill checks, they can make a melee touch attack for 2d6 of the appropriate energy damage, and they gain damage reduction of 5/magic. If they are struck in melee, the attacker takes 2d6 points of the appropriate energy damage. This ability lasts for up to 1 minute per 2 primalist class levels, and is usable only once per day.

    Primal Transport (Ps): Starting at 10th level, a primalist learns to step into the borders of the primal energy planes for short leaps of travel and gain both the psionic dimension door and psionic phase door powers. These powers are in addition to any powers the primalist learns by advancing levels. The primalist treats these both as 4th level powers on their class list. This means that both powers cost 7 power points. However for dimension door the augmentation cost to activate the power as a move-equivalent action is automatically added for free (thus for 7 power points the power is activated as a move-equivalent action).

    Improved Adaptation (Ex): At 12th level, a primalist becomes more resistant to kinetic energy sources gaining Energy Resistance 5 against cold, electricity, fire and sonic damage sources.

    Greater Primal Nimbus (Ps): At 14th level and higher the primalist’s energy damage on a successful hit with a touch attack while using the primal aurora ability or with the primal nimbus ability increases to 4d6 points of damage from 2d6 damage.

    Inundation (Ps): A primalist that reaches 16th level can expend their psionic focus (see Concentration skill p.37 Expanded Psionic Handbook) and take a full round action to inundate one living creature within 30 feet with one energy type (chosen at the time of the manifestation). For example raising or lowering body temperature for fire or cold, overloading the nervous system impulses for electricity, and creating a crushing pressure for sonic. The target must succeed a Fortitude saving throw (DC 14 + the primalist’s Charisma modifier) or die horrifically. Even on a successful saving throw, the target takes 4d8 points of the appropriate energy damage.

    Primal Fury (Ps): At 18th level the primalist gains the ability to release a great burst of raging primal energy (type chosen at the time of manifestation) around themselves, effecting everything in the area. Once per day, as a standard action, they can use this ability to deal 15d6 points of the appropriate energy damage in a 30-foot radius burst emanating form themselves. Any creature or object caught in the burst can make a Reflex save (DC 15 + the primalist’s Charisma modifier) for half damage. Anyone failing the Reflex save against the primal fury must also make a Fortitude saving throw (same DC) or die due extreme shock from the intensity of the energy.

    Metamorphosis (Ps): At 20th level, a primalist learns to take the shape of creature of the primal energy planes and gains the greater metamorphosis power as a known power. This power is in addition to any powers the primalist learns by advancing levels. In all respects this power acts as described, except that the primalist may only take the form of an elemental.

    Greater Adaptation (Ex): At 20th level, a primalist becomes more resistant to kinetic energy sources increasing their Energy Resistance against cold, electricity, fire and sonic damage sources to Energy Resistance 10.


    Primalist Power List by Level
    Level 1: Astral Traveler, Burst, Catfall, Control Flames, Control Light, Control Object, Create Sound, Deceleration, Detect Psionics, Empty Mind, Energy Ray, Entangling Ectoplasm, Far Hand, Float, Force Screen, Grip of Iron, Hammer, Inertial Armor, Matter Agitation, Minor Creation-Psionic, Skate, Stomp, Thicken Skin, Vigor
    Level 2: Biofeedback, Body Equilibrium, Concealing Amorpha, Concussion Blast, Control Air, Control Sound, Elfsight, Energy Adaptation-Specified, Energy Missile, Energy Push, Energy Stun, Levitate-Psionic, Sustenance, Swarm of Crystals, Wall Walker
    Level 3: Body Adjustment, Body Purification, Concealing Amorpha-Greater, Crisis of Breath, Darkvision-Psionic, Dimensional Slide, Dismiss Ectoplasm, Ectoplasmic Cocoon, Ectoplasmic Form, Energy Bolt, Energy Burst, Energy Cone, Energy Retort, Energy Wall, Eradicate Invisibility, Keen Edge-Psionic, Telekinetic Force, Telekinetic Thrust, Touchsight, Ubiquitous Vision
    Level 4: Energy Adaptation, Energy Ball, Fabricate-Psionic, Fly-Psionic, Freedom of Movement-Psionic, Immovability, Inertial Barrier, Steadfast Perception, Telekinetic Maneuver, Wall of Ectoplasm, Weapon of Energy
    Level 5: Adapt Body, Ectoplasmic Shambler, Energy Current, Fiery Discorporation, Hail of Crystals, Incarnate, Major Creation-Psionic, Oak Body, Plane Shift-Psionic
    Level 6: Banishment-Psionic, Crystallize, Disintegrate-Psionic, Fabricate-Greater Psionic, Overland Flight-Psionic
    Level 7: Ectoplasmic Cocoon-Mass, Energy Conversion, Energy Wave, Evade Burst, Sequester-Psionic
    Level 8: Iron Body-Psionic, Matter Manipulation, Shadow Body, Telekinetic Sphere-Psionic, True Metabolism
    Level 9: Timeless Body, Tornado Blast, True Creation
    Last edited by Khaalis; Wednesday, 9th June, 2004 at 01:36 PM. Reason: added icon

 

  • #2
    It's unbalanced, a lot:

    The class has the power progression of a psychic warrior but focusing on kinetics instead of metabolism. It also shares the psychic warrior BAB. But then, differences start to be apparent: d6 HD instead of d8, but in exchange they have, more skill points per level, 2 good saves instead of one, power levels to 9th instead of 6th maximum, and a better power point progression. Judging only by that, the class is certainly better than a psychic warrior. When compared to a psion, they have better hp, fewer power points and powers known, but have a lot of special abilities.

    A thing that I noticed, you have the 5 energy types as part of kinetics. Acid doesn't appear in the types of psionic energy. It is: cold, electricity, fire and sonic for psionic classes.

    Then, let's see the class special abilities:
    Primal Weapon: similar to the way the soulknife blade works, but better. Why?because you get to still apply all ellegible bonuses to it while for example manifesting a sonic weapon to get through any damage reduction and still deal full damage, how many monsters with resistance to sonic do you know?less than any other, I guess. Also, the ability to freely manifest the energy type you need can result in balance issues against creatures with regeneration for example.
    The idea is cool, but too powerful, perhaps if the character selected one of cold, fire or electricity at levels 1st, 5th and 10th and allow sonic only at 15th and dealing damage as a size category less?

    Adaptation: Energy Resistance 5 against ALL 5 energy types at 2nd level, with a +2 on saves to boot. That's broken. Compare it to the Favored Soul, who only gets Energy Resistance 10 against a selected type at levels 5th, 10th and 15th. Then the ability improves itself at 12th and 20th level to resistance 10 and 20 respectively with saves of +4 and +8?I know of players that could kill only to have that ability.
    Perhaps, fix it by giving it Energy Resistance 5 and save +2 against a selected energy form at levels 2nd, 12th and 20th. You could select the same one repeatedly to stack the bonuses against a particular energy type. Also, remove acid from the possibilities because it has nothing to do with kinetics.

    Primal Bolt: No need for that ability. Also, if there is no limit or something like "spend psionic focus" you have a limitless source of mass damage. Something that can unbalance a campaign faster that you can say "hi!". With all the energy related powers the character will have at their dispossal, this ability can really be removed without damaging the feel of the class.

    Primal Nimbus: Cool ability that can get out of hand too. Limit it by needing to spend psionic focus or the way the soulknife similar ability works: it is spent once you deal a succesful attack with it and must spend another move action for it to work again. The Greater Primal Nimbus, same comments. Also, no acid.

    Primal Aurora: Not neccesary, can be done with the proper powers... Energy Retort?

    Primal Transport: Not sure about this one, but it is perhaps a bit out of character... you are giving psychoportative-like powers for free for a supposedly specialized character. Could work as they spend power points to activate them and all, should be playtested.

    Inundation: This is definitely broken. A spend psionic focus autokill type of ability usable an unlimited number of times per day?Not in my book. Make it work like the quivering palm monk ability (1/week) and then maybe. The way it is written, it is godly powerful.

    Primal Fury: as it is limited 1/day, maybe it is balanced. Again, I think it is unnecessary with all the energy powers you would have at your dispossal. Again, no acid.

    Metamorphosis: No comments regarding this one.

    All in all, if we were to assign a score of power to this class as is written, with 0 being really weak and useless and 10 being an uber-character unbalanced class of death this could score a 15 easily.

    Cool concept, too unbalanced to make it broken.
    Studying Computer Science for fun is more stupid that kicking a sleeping dragon's snout for sport.

  • #3
    Well, you did stay pretty loyal to the pyrokineticest. But, here is what I would do-

    Manifesting/powers known: Personally, flavor wise I think charisma makes more sense for someone like this, but that is just me. For powers known, I think that if you are going to give them the ability to manifest powers 1-9, you should give them the wilder's powers known progression.

    Primal Weapon: Kyamsil does have a point, the ability to say "Bam! My longsword does straight sonic damage, and your DR can't resist it." You could either do what kyamsil suggested, or have the character pay, oh, 1-5 pp to manifest that weapon. Personally, I think you should make the weapon do the same damage for all who take the class. Maybe a straight 1d10 20/x2 across the board for all med. characters. It will be a one-handed martial weapon. If you don't use Kyamsil's suggestion, make it so that when they create the blade, have them roll a d6 to determine what element it is, or some similar random element determiner. I don't know, it's your call.

    For adaptation, you should do one or the other. And if you are giving them the resist all, maybe you should make it so that they could expend their psionic focus as a swift action can can be used during anyone's turn (sorry, forgot the name) to gain that energy resist 5.

    Primal bolt is no different from it's pyro counterpart. If they gave it to pyro, it shouldn't be too broken as a class ability. However, you should make sonic do 1d6-1 or d4's, becuase sonic is a very uncommon energy resistance. Keep in mind that if you don't include that sonic bypasses hardness, then it won't. Look at wizards, using energy substitution (sonic) doesn't let them meteor swarm (sonic) a building for 24d6 while ignoring the hardness. Either that, or stat that sonic is still subject to hardness, similar to the other elements. Maybe include a "must expend psionic focus" clause to make it a little harder to abuse, but personally I don't feel that it's necessary, pyro didn't require it.

    Primal nimbus: I believe the PrC gave it as a 1/day ability. You should have him pay power points and maintian his psionic focus to use this ability.

    Inundation: Besides allowing opponents immune to the element to be immune to the effect, oponents weak to the element take a -1 to -4 penalty to the save, I think that paying power points would help even it out, like 3 or 5. Pyro could do it at will, no pp cost to him, so you don't have to make it too high.

    Primal Fury: uh, loyal to the class, but IMO, pointless, especially since they have access to powers. Maybe something new and interesting, like increasing your effective manifester level or decreasing pp cost when manifesting energy powers.

    Metamorphosis: Well, being able to turn into any elemental is deffinately a boon, but why don't you just give them the power known, except make it so that they can only assume the form of elements or creatures with energy subtypes.

    there's my 2 cp.
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  • #4
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    ψ Ignore Khaalis
    First – thanks for all the comments. I will be tweaking and changing for a second draft, and hope the comments will be as prolific. BTW Kyamsil… I assume you dislike the Pyro as it is written?

    Now to the replies…

    Well, you did stay pretty loyal to the pyrokineticest.
    That was the basic idea, but to expand it into a full psionic class that accesses all of the primal kinetic energies. Also note that this would replace the Pyro similar to making the Soulknife into a full class rather than a PrC.

    It also shares the psychic warrior BAB. But then, differences start to be apparent: d6 HD instead of d8, but in exchange they have, more skill points per level, 2 good saves instead of one, power levels to 9th instead of 6th maximum, and a better power point progression. Judging only by that, the class is certainly better than a psychic warrior. When compared to a psion, they have better hp, fewer power points and powers known, but have a lot of special abilities.
    * BAB = Same as Wilder, Pyro, PsyWar, and Soulknife. Only the Psion has Bad BAB.
    * D6 HD = Better than Psion; Equal to Wilder; Worse than PsyWar, Soulknife and Pyro.
    * # of Saves = Same as Pyro, Soulknife; makes more sense for a primalist
    * Skill Points = Same as Wilder and Soulknife (House Rule – we give all classes min. 4+, but its negotiable for the class design)

    As a comparison to the Psychic Warrior, most Psi classes are better. They are primarily fighters with a tiny bit of Psi power. Basically the bards of psionics. 90% of all Psychic Warriors will likely by Pyros or MC Soulknives.

    Manifesting/powers known: Personally, flavor wise I think charisma makes more sense for someone like this, but that is just me.
    I had thought about this and wavered on the line. I was afraid of making them too much like the Wilder by making the Charisma based. I agree that it does make more sense though, especially considering the non-lawful aspect of the class. Changed.

    For powers known, I think that if you are going to give them the ability to manifest powers 1-9, you should give them the wilder's powers known progression.
    I wasn’t sure on this one. Again I was trying to shy away from making them too much like a Wilder, but I also wanted them to have little bit more flexibility in their powers, but less power (thus ½ the Power Points). However, considering the balance factors, I guess this class needs to be more like the wilder, just substituting their Kinetic Powers for the Wilder powers. However, with that said – should they get Wilder Power Points or remain at the Half PP progression?

    Current change is 1 off from the Wilder so that new powers are learned on levels they Don’t get a class ability. Still end up with only 11 powers as the Wilder.


    A thing that I noticed, you have the 5 energy types as part of kinetics. Acid doesn't appear in the types of psionic energy. It is: cold, electricity, fire and sonic for psionic classes.
    Within the “Energy” psionic powers this is correct. There are acid psionic powers however, and I was trying to get a full elemental feel to their abilities. Granted the acidic powers are Metabolic rather than kinetic, I will have to concede and remove the earth/acid aspect.


    Primal Weapon:
    Similar to the way the soulknife blade works, but better. Why? because you get to still apply all ellegible bonuses to it while for example manifesting a sonic weapon to get through any damage reduction and still deal full damage, how many monsters with resistance to sonic do you know? less than any other, I guess. Also, the ability to freely manifest the energy type you need can result in balance issues against creatures with regeneration for example.
    The idea is cool, but too powerful, perhaps if the character selected one of cold, fire or electricity at levels 1st, 5th and 10th and allow sonic only at 15th and dealing damage as a size category less?

    Kyamsil does have a point, the ability to say "Bam! My longsword does straight sonic damage, and your DR can't resist it." You could either do what kyamsil suggested, or have the character pay, oh, 1-5 pp to manifest that weapon. Personally, I think you should make the weapon do the same damage for all who take the class. Maybe a straight 1d10 20/x2 across the board for all med. characters. It will be a one-handed martial weapon. If you don't use Kyamsil's suggestion, make it so that when they create the blade, have them roll a d6 to determine what element it is, or some similar random element determiner. I don't know, it's your call.
    Ok, a few comments. The Primalist weapon is only better than a Soulkife weapon in that they can choose any light or single-handed simple or martial weapon instead of just a Short Sword. Keep in mind that a Soulkife’s blade is stackable with all benefits as well. Skn’s weapons also gain the following that primalist doesn’t:
    * Skn weapon improves with level.
    * Skn weapon can overcome Null Psion Fields and Dispelling.

    As to DR. This could be a valid point. Sonic does have few resistances. However, for the primalist the weapon must be an energy weapon. Another issue to consider is that ‘Psionic Weapon’ also deals damage that has almost no resistance. I do however, like the idea of choosing the energy type at levels.
    “At 1st level the primalist can choose one energy type to manifest from cold, electricity or fire. At 5th and 10th level they may choose another energy type that they may manifest at will from cold, electricity or fire. At 15th level the primalist also gains the sonic energy type as a manifestation energy choice.“

    As to weapon type. I wanted the class to be more individualistic and customizable. Soulknives get Short Swords only, and Pyro’s get Whip only. I wanted to have a class that got to choose their weapon type. If you want to have a dwarven primalist using a dwarven war axe or an elven primalist with a rapier, etc. you could. This also makes issues of resizing easy as it follows the standard rules for the weapon type.

    Activation cost. The only issue with this is that neither the Pyro nor the Soulknife pay a cost for creating their weapons. ‘Psionic Weapon’ requires expending focus but does a lot more damage, and expending focus can be easily overcome with the Hustle and ‘Psionic Meditation’ combo.


    Adaptation:
    Energy Resistance 5 against ALL 5 energy types at 2nd level, with a +2 on saves to boot. That's broken. Compare it to the Favored Soul, who only gets Energy Resistance 10 against a selected type at levels 5th, 10th and 15th. Then the ability improves itself at 12th and 20th level to resistance 10 and 20 respectively with saves of +4 and +8? I know of players that could kill only to have that ability.
    Perhaps, fix it by giving it Energy Resistance 5 and save +2 against a selected energy form at levels 2nd, 12th and 20th. You could select the same one repeatedly to stack the bonuses against a particular energy type. Also, remove acid from the possibilities because it has nothing to do with kinetics.

    For adaptation, you should do one or the other. And if you are giving them the resist all, maybe you should make it so that they could expend their psionic focus as a swift action can can be used during anyone's turn (sorry, forgot the name) to gain that energy resist 5.
    Based From:
    ”Fire Adaptation (Ex): At 2nd level, a pyrokineticist becomes resistant to fire, gaining a +4 bonus on all saving throws against fire and heat spells and effects. In addition, she gains resistance to fire 10.”
    “Fear No Fire (Ex): At 7th level, a pyrokineticist becomes highly resistant to fire, gaining a +8 bonus on all saving throws against fire and heat spells and effects and also gaining resistance to fire 20.”
    Granted this is against a single element. The issue is that the primalist should be resistant to all kinetic energy, not just one or two. How about the following?

    Adaptation (2nd): +4 to all saves vs. cold, electricity, fire, and sonic.
    Improved (12th): As adaptation + ER 5 vs. cold, electricity, fire, and sonic.
    Greater (20th): As improved but increase to ER 10 vs. cold, electricity, fire, and sonic.


    Primal Bolt:
    No need for that ability. Also, if there is no limit or something like "spend psionic focus" you have a limitless source of mass damage. Something that can unbalance a campaign faster that you can say "hi!". With all the energy related powers the character will have at their dispossal, this ability can really be removed without damaging the feel of the class.

    Primal bolt is no different from it's pyro counterpart. If they gave it to pyro, it shouldn't be too broken as a class ability. However, you should make sonic do 1d6-1 or d4's, becuase sonic is a very uncommon energy resistance. Keep in mind that if you don't include that sonic bypasses hardness, then it won't. Look at wizards, using energy substitution (sonic) doesn't let them meteor swarm (sonic) a building for 24d6 while ignoring the hardness. Either that, or stat that sonic is still subject to hardness, similar to the other elements. Maybe include a "must expend psionic focus" clause to make it a little harder to abuse, but personally I don't feel that it's necessary, pyro didn't require it.
    As mentioned Primal Bolt = Bolt of Fire. As mentioned its part of the Pyro class. However Pyro doesn’t have its own PP’s and Powers Known, but it is assumed that the Pyro is an existing Psionic Class due to its entry requirements. Thus I have to assume it is not as unbalanced as Kyamsil thinks. Especially with the much reduced number of known powers, this may be the primary ranged offense for the class.

    As to damage/power level, compare to “Energy Bolt”. Primal Bolt has ½ the range, is a ranged touch attack effecting only 1 target rather than an AoE effecting all within the 120’ line of the bolt. Damage is 1d6/2 levels (max 10d6 at 20th) whereas Energy Bolt does 5d6 base + bonuses based on energy type and can be increased by 1d6 per PP spent (no limit) and also increases save DC dramatically.

    For sonic the following additional statement: “A bolt of sonic energy deals –1 point of damage per die but ignores an object’s hardness” as per ‘Energy Bolt’.

    Expending focus would only result in a possible slowdown in use of the ability, defeated by the ‘Psionic Meditation’ and Hustle combination. Compared to the Pyro’s ‘Bolt of Fire’ or the Soulknife’s thrown blade , I don’t see it as entirely necessary.


    Primal nimbus:
    Cool ability that can get out of hand too. Limit it by needing to spend psionic focus or the way the soulknife similar ability works: it is spent once you deal a succesful attack with it and must spend another move action for it to work again. The Greater Primal Nimbus, same comments. Also, no acid.

    I believe the PrC gave it as a 1/day ability. You should have him pay power points and maintian his psionic focus to use this ability.
    This ability is directly from the Pyro but with the choice of energy type instead of only Fire.
    From SRD = Weapon Afire (Ps): At 4th level and higher, a pyrokineticist can activate this ability as a move-equivalent action. Flames that harm neither her nor the weapon engulf one weapon she holds (which can be a projectile such as a stone, bullet, arrow, or bolt). The weapon deals an extra 2d6 points of fire damage on a successful hit. The weapon retains this effect for as long as the pyrokineticist wields it.
    Primal Aurora:
    Not neccesary, can be done with the proper powers... Energy Retort?
    Again, this is directly from the Pyro’s Nimbus ability. The power also grants damage reduction 5/magic but less ‘retort’ damage than ‘Energy Retort’. Note that I also DROPPED the +4 Charisma score boost from this ability.
    From the SRD = Nimbus (Ps): Beginning at 5th level, a pyrokineticist can activate this ability as a move-equivalent action. Flames that harm neither the pyrokineticist nor her equipment engulf her entire body. While she is aflame, the character’s Charisma score increases by 4, she can make a melee touch attack for 2d6 points of fire damage, and she gains damage reduction 5/magic. If she is struck in melee, the attacker takes 2d6 points of fire damage. This ability lasts for up to 1 minute per pyrokineticist level and is usable once per day.
    Also with the much severely reduced number of known powers available to the class, it makes this an even more useful ability.


    Primal Transport:
    Not sure about this one, but it is perhaps a bit out of character... you are giving psychoportative-like powers for free for a supposedly specialized character. Could work as they spend power points to activate them and all, should be playtested.
    This was added using the basic ability of designed for the Elocator to replace the “Firewalk” of the Pyro and to give a more “elementalist” aspect to the class as well as a non-combat/utility ability. It could be replaced with the Firewalk ability again instead, but I preferred the idea of simply adding to related but “external” psionic powers to their known power list and making them spend the power points for them.


    Inundation:
    This is definitely broken. A spend psionic focus autokill type of ability usable an unlimited number of times per day?Not in my book. Make it work like the quivering palm monk ability (1/week) and then maybe. The way it is written, it is godly powerful.

    Besides allowing opponents immune to the element to be immune to the effect, oponents weak to the element take a -1 to -4 penalty to the save, I think that paying power points would help even it out, like 3 or 5. Pyro could do it at will, no pp cost to him, so you don't have to make it too high.
    This ability is straight from the Pyro, though delayed to 16th level and with more flavor than just heat. Keep in mind for a 16th level power this is a low save Fort DC (14+Cha). Even with an 18 Cha a DC 18 is something even a 16th level Wizard could make most of the time.
    From the SRD = Heat Death (Ps): A pyrokineticist who reaches 9th level can expend her psionic focus and take a full attack action to raise the internal temperature of one living creature within 30 feet to lethal levels. The target must succeed on a Fortitude saving throw (DC 14 + pyro’s Cha modifier) or die horrifically as its blood (or other internal fluid) boils. Even on a successful save, the target takes 4d8 points of fire damage from the heat.

    Primal Fury:
    as it is limited 1/day, maybe it is balanced. Again, I think it is unnecessary with all the energy powers you would have at your dispossal. Again, no acid.

    uh, loyal to the class, but IMO, pointless, especially since they have access to powers. Maybe something new and interesting, like increasing your effective manifester level or decreasing pp cost when manifesting energy powers.
    Yes it was taken directly from the Pyro class. It allows for an AoE effect without having to use one of the now even more limited known powers (11) on an AoE power versus a utility power. However, I had thought of adding a form of power manipulation ability but it seemed to be hitting too close into the Wilder’s class abilities.

    Metamorphosis:
    Well, being able to turn into any elemental is deffinately a boon, but why don't you just give them the power known, except make it so that they can only assume the form of elements or creatures with energy subtypes.
    How is this?
    Metamorphosis (Ps): At 20th level, a primalist learns to take the shape of creature of the primal energy planes and gains the greater metamorphosis power as a known power. This power is in addition to any powers the primalist learns by advancing levels. In all respects this power acts as described, except that the primalist may only take the form of an elemental.


    Overall in my opinion I would prefer to find better options than Inundation and Primal Fury. I am thinking of changing things by dropping these 2 abilities, swapping Primal Transport to 12th level and Improved Adaptation to 10th level , then moving Greater Adaptation to 18th level, and then finding a new power for 16th level.

    Thoughts?

  • #5
    In the latest edit of the class it seems a lot more balanced than before.

    First – thanks for all the comments. I will be tweaking and changing for a second draft, and hope the comments will be as prolific. BTW Kyamsil… I assume you dislike the Pyro as it is written?
    I don't like the Pyro too much. I think it is a cool concept but a poorly constructed class. There are some abilities, namely Conflagration with the special save to avoid death if you fail the reflex save and Heat Death that seem too powerful. Heat Death should have a defined number of uses (1/day most likely).

    Still, you know that pyrokineticist is a prestige class without power point or powers known progression that has lots of special abilities to compensate for that. You are giving the same number (and all the same abilities but enhanced to select energy type and given even more versatility (like selecting weapon manifested) so basically the same as pyro but better) and still keep a wilder-like character in most other aspects. Even with half the power points of a wilder, it seems too much. Some of the pyro abilities are compensated in the fact that you spend 10 levels to master all those special abilities, levels you won't see a single power point or power known.

    Let's compare them this way: your class is way better at level 20 than a Wilder10/pyrokineticist10.
    Why?
    You get 172 power points when compared to the 88 of a level 10 Wilder.
    You get to know 11 powers instead of 6
    You get to know 9th level powers instead of 5th
    You get all the pyro special abiliities but with the choice of type of energy on the fly.
    You get even a 9th level bonus power known (greater metamorphosis), even if limited to primal or elemental forms.

    The only things that a Wilder10/pyrokineticist 10 has that a Primalist doesn't have are:
    Wild Surge+3, Psychic Enervation(a disadvantage), Elude Touch, Surging Euphoria+1, and Volatile Mind (2 power points).

    I think that's not enough to compensate. If given the choice between those 2 characters, guess which one would 99% of the players prefer...
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  • #6
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    ψ Ignore Khaalis
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyamsil
    In the latest edit of the class it seems a lot more balanced than before.
    Thanks for all the constructive comments. This is a big help.

    I agree that the Pyro is not the best class design I have ever seen. In fact what disturbs me most, aside from some of the power mechanics like the death save, is that anyone with 1PP (ie any XPH race) can be one with the only level restriction being 5th level due to 8 ranks in concentration which is a class skill for many classes. I like the concept of the Pyro, but I prefer the idea of a more “elementalist” or pure kinetic primal feel. That combined with the way the Pyro class was designed made me want to instead make it into a 20 level class rather than a somewhat abusive 10 level class (just as Soulknife was made into a 20 level class from a 10 level PrC). In that vein, I was discounting a Wilder10/Pyro10 for balance consideration since I want to do away with the Pyro as being a PrC10 is too abusive. I was more looking to compare a 20 Primalist vs. the other 20 level psionic classes.

    Personal note – I am not all that keen on the wilder as I feel it is a little lacking when compared to the Psion. I don’t think the bonuses outweigh the loss of powers. The other problem with the comparison is that Wilders, even though restricted to 11 powers can choose a much wider range of abilities than can a Primalist. The Primalist power list is very restrictive.

    In your Wilder10/Pyro10, I think it would be a trade off decision considering I could have my 88 PP for powers like Incarnate or Psychic Crush, Dispel Psionics, Psionic Blast, etc. or even any of the mental defense powers – all of which can never be achieved by a primalist.

    In that light, I think the primalist remains a good concept, and its not too far unbalanced, but it still needs some tweaks, considering that I have already mentioned dropping Inundation (Heat Death) and Primal Fury (Conflagration), but I think it needs a unique (preferably utility) ability added for 16th level. I also mentioned in the first post that it might still need to be trimmed in Power Points, but I wouldn’t go lower than the Psychic Warrior or it seriously risks removing the “utility” balance of the class, thus removing much of the possible roll for the class. Trimming maximum power level to 7th might also help? The loss of 8th and 9th level powers is a balance point.

    So what I am seeking is tweak suggestions. Have any?
    Last edited by Khaalis; Wednesday, 9th June, 2004 at 01:59 PM.

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