DRM Suggestions

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tm80401

First Post
O.K. This may not be the right board for this, but the discussion of DRM is happening here, so it seems right.

In general I am opposed to the various schemes of DRM for a number of reasons. Since the publishers seem to be paying attention to these boards, I thought we might discuss what would make a DRM scheme acceptable. I have no problem with publishers trying to protect their intellectual property. I simply don't find the current attempts to be ones that I am willing to support.

Things that DRM must do to be found acceptable. (Actually protecting the IP is assumed)

1. Protect Personal Information of purchaser.
2. Be transparent. Requiring NO additional effort by user to access the work.
3. Not infringe on the purchasers fair use of the material.


In order to successfully do this, I believe that it needs to be implemented in the following way.

DRM standards need to be created and implemented so that all DRM interfaces with all readers the same way. i.e. 60 companies create DRM schemes, 100 companies create readers, they all work with each other because they all follow the same rules.

Multiple independent third parties need to come into existance to manage users rights. i.e. Adobe, Microsoft, whoever will not know who, as an end user, is buying and using what books. Only these independent third parties will. We are talking about information that even the US government is prohibited from collecting. We should not be willing to give it away, or allow it to be used in ways we don't want it to.

There should be significant criminal and civil penalties for these 3rd parties if they release ANY information about their clients without a court order

After purchase, publishers should not be able to tighten restrictions on any product. They can loosen them, but never tighten them.



I won't go into what kind of technologies would need to be used, because I don't know what would work best. I am just listing what I think are the minimum requirements for acceptable DRM.
 

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steelgrave

First Post
DRM will never work for one very simple reason:

Smart people are not all honest.

Anything that can be seen and/or heard can be copied, period. You can pass all the laws and regulations you want. You can spend millions in powerful encryption and other technologies, and they will all be broken.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a hacker nor do I condone breaking the law, but this point has been proven consistently in the last several years, especially in the entertainment industry.

When society finally realizes that the concept of IP is fundamentally flawed, we'll finally be able to do away with relics such as the RIAA and the BSA.

I know I sound like some sort of open source linux zealot there (which I'm not actually), but building a better mousetrap isn't going to stop the bull. :D
 

BASHMAN

Basic Action Games
You are totally right there. I have a friend who can do amazing things with computers. I am 100% sure that he would be able to figure out a way to copy books from DTRPG.com, and turn them into unencrypted, normal PDFs. Why would he do something like this? Because he would want to see if he could.

Also, the idea of setting up the product like this in order to protect IP is ridiculous anyway. Anyone who wants Vampire the Masquerade or some other book need look no further than the dozens of file sharing programs that exist. SUre, let's assume that white wolf never made an unsecure PDF of the game. Fine. People with scanners and lots of freetime, however, did. I have not tried to download this book, but I am 99.999999999999% sure that one can get it-- illegally-- for free, in a format that is much more user friendly than the electronic one sold by DTRPG.com for about 90% of the cost of the hardcopy. For smart people who are not 100% honest, the choice is pretty simple!
 

maddman75

First Post
I have downloaded PDFs from P2P networks -- of books that I physically own. Its useful to have (and like some other said I would love some kind of 'coupon system' where you buy the book and perhaps for a small additional fee you get the PDF) for doing research and such. Is that fair use -- I think so. I know its definetly fair use for me to scan a book myself for my own use. I don't really see what the difference is if someone else scans it for me. (I don't, by the way, leave them shared for others to have.)

DRM will never work. If I can view the data, I can copy the data. Heck, I could point a digital camera at my monitor if I really wanted to.
 
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Kesh

First Post
I have no problem with the DRM found at places like DTRPG or iTunes Music Store. It's relatively unobtrusive, I can make copies/backups as much as I want... so, it's not a concern to me.

Now, something more pervasive or restrictive, like the copy protection & region encoding on DVDs, make me far more upset.
 

steelgrave

First Post
Kesh said:
Now, something more pervasive or restrictive, like the copy protection & region encoding on DVDs, make me far more upset.

Well thats because defeating DRM on things like PDF's is relatively simple compared to DVD's. Now remember the DVD encryption scheme was cracked by a 15 year old kid in Scandinavia (Norway I think), with a small Perl script.
 

tm80401

First Post
Kesh said:
I have no problem with the DRM found at places like DTRPG or iTunes Music Store. It's relatively unobtrusive, I can make copies/backups as much as I want... so, it's not a concern to me.

Now, something more pervasive or restrictive, like the copy protection & region encoding on DVDs, make me far more upset.


My biggest problem with DRM ( as a generic term ) is that it requires me to disclose personal information to a 3rd party from whom I am getting nothing, and who has no legal requirement to keep that information private. Adobe can say whatever they want in their privacy policies, they also say that they can change their policy at any time, and you are stuck with it. With no notice. Your only recourse, possibly, is to demand that your information be deleted, thus removing access to your property.
 

The Sigil

Mr. 3000 (Words per post)
steelgrave said:
DRM will never work for one very simple reason:

Smart people are not all honest.
"You must understand this Harry, 'cause it's very important. Not all wizards are good."

Same general principle.

Steelgrave's quote gets right to the heart of the issue.

--The Sigil
 

Henry

Autoexreginated
Hi, Folks!

Seeing as how we have numerous threads on the DRM Discussion, we are going to be closing off several of these to reduce the amount of redundant topics in here and in d20 Publishers. We're not closing off discussion at all! But if you want to continue topics, I highly recommend posting in one of the existing threads, such as:

Malhavoc PDF's not longer available at RPGNow.com
http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=90442

or

Will you be purchasing PDF's from DrivethruRPG?
http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=90498


Thanks for understanding, everyone.
 

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