Reincarnation

Gregor · Jun 13, 2004

Hey everyone,

(this is FR btw)

I have a quick question regarding Reincarnation. We, as a group, have never used the spell, nor have we even dealt with raising of any kind. Alright, long story made short, a 7th level rogue in a 7th level party was reincarnated as a Drow (DM choice on the spell's chart and the actual race was chosen for campaign reasons).

She'll come back one level lower as per normal raise spells, so we're looking at a 6th level rogue. However, Drow have a +2 LA so my question is the following:

Will she come back as ECL 8 (6th rogue, +2 for Drow)? Or something different?

I cant seem to wrap my head around this, can anyone help?

Darklone · Jun 13, 2004

Last time we talked about it... I think most DMs handle it differently

I tend to use ECL 8... after all, it's luck

robberbaron · Jun 14, 2004

Sounds a bit harsh to impose an level adjusted race on a player then stitch him up level-wise, so I would say let him be a 6th Level Rogue.

uzagi_akimbo · Jun 14, 2004

Would agree on that - ignore the ECL (especially if the GM selected the race ) and let the player keep his 6 rogue levels. After all, the reincarnation table of possible races also lists bugbears and troglodytes, who definitely would be ECL+1 or higher, without mentioning loosing any levels.

In another vein - we had a "reincarnation" happening IMC rather recently (the character carried too many vital clues and first-person observations necessary for completing the story arc ), but our GM, always given to a cruel streak and the character having been hit previously with some unspecified "Bestow Curse" from an NPC giving "bad luck", had him reincarnated in a body of a different sex ( e.g. the strapping male elf ranger (he was pretty macho) came back to fight alongside his companions as a female dwarf ranger ). We are laughing still - the player took it very much in stride, and it has led to some very memorable scenes.

I am not going to argue with the GM's prerogative, but I didn't find anything about the new body's traits in the spell description - was that reincarnation within strict D20 rules ?

jgsugden · Jun 14, 2004

Unclear Rules ...

The rules on this area are pretty unclear, but this is how we'd handle it in my game.

Character dies as 7th level rogue.

Reincarnation spell is cast. Immediately drops to 6th level.

Character's new race is determined as drow with a LA of +2, making the character ECL 8.

The character now has as much experience as a 6th level character in the middle of 6th level (18,000 EXP?), but gains experience as if he were an 8th level PC and needs to gain enough experience as a normal PC would need to get to 9th level before he advances back to 7th level (36,000 EXP?)

Reincarnation can really mess a game up. I had a 2nd level paladin with an 18 strength. He died due to a critical hit from an ogre while helping a druid. The DM took mercy and had the druid reincarnate the paladin. The new race rolled up was a centaur. That effectively gave the paladin a strength of 26. He was off the charts in terms of offensive power, but ended up being far too weak in terms of hit points (due to his high ECL/LA) to accompany the party. I retired him and began playing a different character because the reincarnation had made the character simultaneously too strong and too weak.

My advice: Avoid reincarnation for PCs. I changed reincarnation in the game I run so that reincarnated individuals are no longer PCs, they become NPCs (with in put from players when necessary).

Darklone · Jun 14, 2004

Or change the chart to ECL 0 creatures.

Gregor · Jun 14, 2004

jgsugden said:
The rules on this area are pretty unclear, but this is how we'd handle it in my game.

Character dies as 7th level rogue.

Reincarnation spell is cast. Immediately drops to 6th level.

Character's new race is determined as drow with a LA of +2, making the character ECL 8.

The character now has as much experience as a 6th level character in the middle of 6th level (18,000 EXP?), but gains experience as if he were an 8th level PC and needs to gain enough experience as a normal PC would need to get to 9th level before he advances back to 7th level (36,000 EXP?)

Thanks alot for all the suggestions, it has seriously clarified it for me. I still agree with you all that reincarnation is pretty whack and it should definitely be ECL +0 races only.

Im going to keep the race as my player is rather excited about her transformation and Im hoping (as I would with any LA race) that things will work out for the best. As long as she has fun, Im happy.

Cheers!

Darklone · Jun 14, 2004

Just looked at the 3.5 spell... the list already has mostly ECL 0 races (except for bugbears, lizards, trogs and gnolls).

scholz · Jun 14, 2004

I would say you need to count the ECL, otherwise they could be more powerful from the reincarnation.
I agree that it can run havok for a PC to become a badger or something. I considered having reincarnation turn people into that thing from Savage Species (anthropmorphic animals...) the idea woul dbe they become half-animals. That to me is kind of cool. You take on the elements of the badger, or dog, or deer, but you are still able towear armor, use weapons, speak etc...
I never really worked out the details, but in terms of keeping a player playing it seemed the right thing to do.
Reincarnation is something that should be okay with the player... though, it is entirely unproductive to give a player a character she doesn't want to play.

I would consider allowing reincarnation to violate the lose one level if the character actually lost some utility (say lost the use of several stat based feats... although I would probably allow them to pick new feats as well).

Anyway, that is my thought.

Bauglir · Jun 14, 2004

Consider making it a 6th level drow rogue, and deducting a further 3000xp after the level loss for raising - you should still be 6th level (iirc - possibly with a bit of a deficit) and play on from there.