Multiple Opposed Skill Checks

Menexenus · Jun 25, 2004

I'm relatively new to DMing and I have a general question about how multiple characters make opposed skill rolls against multiple characters. I'd be grateful for any input people would be willing to provide.

Here's an example to help explain the problem I'm having. Suppose a party of 5 characters are trying to hide from a party of 5 seekers. Do all 5 hiders roll individual Hide checks? Do all 5 seekers roll individual Spot checks? (That's what I'm assuming.)

If so, it seems like it would be virtually impossible for a group of 5 people to hide from any other group of 5 people. One of the seekers is almost certainly going to roll better than one of the hiders! (The best Spot roll is bound to be better than the worst Hide roll.) The same goes for Listen and Move Silently. Suppose a party of 5 people are trying to sneak past a group of 5 NPCs. Again, it seems like the best Listen roll is bound to be better than the worst Move Silently roll.

So this can't be the way these situations are meant to be resolved (can it?). If this type of situation is supposed to be resolved some other way, please tell me how to do it right. Or, if this *is* the way that opposed checks are intended to be used, please help me come up with a variant skill check mechanism that gives groups of characters a more reasonable chance of success against other groups.

Thanks in advance!

Felix · Jun 25, 2004

It's 5 rolls v. 5 rolls. And yes, without any circumstance mods the seekers will find the hiders.

Unless the hiders are smart. You can earn circumstance mods to Hide & Move Silently by being prone and still. Even better if you have Cover or Concealment. If you have full cover, the seekers will not Spot you; they must Search the place you're hiding.

Also, there is a -1/10 feet of distance. So the Hiders must make the choice: Try to run away fast and gain the benefit of -1/10ft to both Listen and Spot, or do they try to stay still, taking the risk by staying close to the enemy.

I'd say it's a fairly accurate portrayal of the choice people face when trying to esacpe. Run, and you might be seen/heard crashing through the bushes. Stay still and you're toast if they have dogs.

dcollins · Jun 26, 2004

Menexenus said:
If so, it seems like it would be virtually impossible for a group of 5 people to hide from any other group of 5 people...

Yes, I agree with this observation, and I've brought it up in the past in this forum. Most DMs do run it that way by default, and it makes it ludicrously difficult for sneaking to succeed.

Here's a snippet that may help. Under the Listen skill: "When several characters are listening to the same thing, the DM can make a single 1d20 roll and use it for all the listeners' skill checks."

Also, you can consider the "Combining Skill Attempts: Cooperation" rule in the PHB, which clearly seems to qualify for a situation such as this. My best solution is take have a lead Spotter for whom everyone else is Cooperating; opposed by the lowest Hide skill on the other side, possibly assuming all Hiders Take 10 (which reduces variation and is thus optimal for the Hiders).

That seems to be a reasonable challenge, a little bit better with every Spotter, but not overwhelmingly so.

Oscar carramiñana · Jun 26, 2004

I do all seekers take 10 on listen & spot checks The hiders must roll against this DC.

Thanee · Jun 26, 2004

Don't forget to apply circumstance modifiers, i.e. listen checks get pretty hard, if you have some distance between yourself and the other person.

But yeah, it's better to just roll once, otherwise statistics are against one side only.

Bye
Thanee

Multiple Opposed Skill Checks

Menexenus

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Felix

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dcollins

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Oscar carramiñana

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Thanee

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