Roma Imperious as PDF. Advice?

Hi all,
I thought I would run this past the folks here. We have just sent our latest title off to the printers, Roma Imperious, and we have been contemplating a PDF release. Questions I have:

1. We are thinking of releasing the setting information separate from the system information. This is not as grim as it sounds. We have the Iridium System core system book we want to release and the PDF version of the Roma book would contain those elements of the system that make it work with the core book. So, would this format work for the PDF world? The setting info is about 120 pages.

2. How many formats are needed to make a viable pdf book? A print friendly version with minimal art seems a good idea. I was thinking the full blown all art version. I guess what I was wondering is a landscape read it on the screen version needed or just advisable?

3. I now James from RPGNow has proclaimed again and again that PDF sales do not affect print sales but I have heard otherwise. Does anyone have actual experience with selling in both markets? For instance, there are retailers who will not carry your product or carry lesser amounts of a PDF also product.

4. I would like to link up some of my older in print products with RPGNow pdf versions. All my inprint versions are on RPGMall. I think I have heard of ways to link these, is it possible? Also, should I reformat to screen friendly and print friendly versions?

hmm, that is all I can think of right now but very willing to hear suggestions. We have one PDF product right now, Regicide, a card game but this seems like an entirely different animal.

Thanks,
Bill

HinterWelt said:

Hi all,
I thought I would run this past the folks here. We have just sent our latest title off to the printers, Roma Imperious, and we have been contemplating a PDF release. Questions I have:

1. We are thinking of releasing the setting information separate from the system information. This is not as grim as it sounds. We have the Iridium System core system book we want to release and the PDF version of the Roma book would contain those elements of the system that make it work with the core book. So, would this format work for the PDF world? The setting info is about 120 pages.

Click to expand...

Release all three. That's the beauty of PDF publishing. Just be certain to explain what is included in each package.

2. How many formats are needed to make a viable pdf book? A print friendly version with minimal art seems a good idea. I was thinking the full blown all art version. I guess what I was wondering is a landscape read it on the screen version needed or just advisable?

Click to expand...

Landscape read isn't needed. Some prefer, some don't.

3. I now James from RPGNow has proclaimed again and again that PDF sales do not affect print sales but I have heard otherwise. Does anyone have actual experience with selling in both markets? For instance, there are retailers who will not carry your product or carry lesser amounts of a PDF also product.

Click to expand...

I don't think there is any effect that isn't erased by the additional sales income. In the end, you'll make more money.

4. I would like to link up some of my older in print products with RPGNow pdf versions. All my inprint versions are on RPGMall. I think I have heard of ways to link these, is it possible? Also, should I reformat to screen friendly and print friendly versions?

Click to expand...

I think there's a way in the set-up to link to a pdf when a purchase is made at Rpgmall.com. I'd reformat to include print and screen versions.

hmm, that is all I can think of right now but very willing to hear suggestions. We have one PDF product right now, Regicide, a card game but this seems like an entirely different animal.

Thanks,
Bill

Click to expand...

Hope that helps!

joe b.

HinterWelt said:

We have one PDF product right now, Regicide, a card game but this seems like an entirely different animal.

Click to expand...

I wouldn't base your PDF book decisions too strongly on your PDF card game experiences. I remember seeing a generalized sales chart for RPGnow recently. Fantasy d20 material was the largest share of sales and the other categories added together didn't equal that market. Non-rpg material, like card games, was the slowest seller, IIRC.

jgbrowning said:

I don't think there is any effect that isn't erased by the additional sales income. In the end, you'll make more money.

Click to expand...

Joe,
Thanks for the great advice. I do wonder though about the above comment. I have talked with about 10 different stores in the area and none of them realized your book had been a PDF before it came to print. This seems both good and bad to me. I was surprised by the vehement reaction to the PDF version. Arguments of advertising for the sale of PDFs came up as well as complaints of customers coming in with PDF versions. Tough words.

Now, I know you have had great success with your book and I do not think I will stop the PDF of our books because of these points but I want to prepare the right spin. It is hard to argue with Retailers when they talk of customers braging up PDF cheapness to other customers.

I want to thank you again Joe. It will make a point to sent you a copy (either PDF or in print) of Roma when it comes out. It should be here around the end of July.

Bill

Greatwyrm said:

I wouldn't base your PDF book decisions too strongly on your PDF card game experiences. I remember seeing a generalized sales chart for RPGnow recently. Fantasy d20 material was the largest share of sales and the other categories added together didn't equal that market. Non-rpg material, like card games, was the slowest seller, IIRC.

Click to expand...

Yeah, definitely. It the card game has done somewhat well for our first offering. This effort would see our in print versions linked to the RPGMall in print versions. Not a RPGMall POD offering but the actual books shipped to RPGMall form our in print runs.

Thanks,
Bill

HinterWelt said:

Joe,
Thanks for the great advice. I do wonder though about the above comment. I have talked with about 10 different stores in the area and none of them realized your book had been a PDF before it came to print. This seems both good and bad to me. I was surprised by the vehement reaction to the PDF version. Arguments of advertising for the sale of PDFs came up as well as complaints of customers coming in with PDF versions. Tough words.

Now, I know you have had great success with your book and I do not think I will stop the PDF of our books because of these points but I want to prepare the right spin. It is hard to argue with Retailers when they talk of customers braging up PDF cheapness to other customers.

Click to expand...

Well as rough as this may sound to some retailers, I'm in this business to make money. I understand retailers desires to profit in the channel, but if the difference (between book and book+PDF version) is that a retailer can sell two of my products as opposed to just one product because I sold that one as a PDF, I get more money by selling the PDF.

I don't think my products are nearly popular enough for there to be any real negative impact in print sales to a degree enough to actually hurt retailers. I'm basically a self-publisher who writes very niche books. The retailers are only selling 2 maybe 3 copies of each of my books to begin with. Were I WoTC, the retailers points would be a lot more realistic in expectation, but to small publishers like us, retailers have to remember that it was the PDF that made me the money that puts those books on their shelves to begin with. So, without the PDF, there would be fewer books from me which would be more detrimental to their sales potential than books that are also available as PDF.

But anyway, I honestly don't think there is that much of a cross over between print and PDF purchasers. And if there is, that's a beneficial cross-over for publishers because It means I can make a sale twice. I guess (I have no data) that there are more people who purchase both versions of my book than there are people who only purchase the PDF version who would have purchased the hardcopy version if the PDF version was not available.

I want to thank you again Joe. It will make a point to sent you a copy (either PDF or in print) of Roma when it comes out. It should be here around the end of July.

Bill

Click to expand...

Hey thanks! I'd love to look it over as we're still toying with the idea of A Magical Society: Imperium but have put in on the backburner because it's a real research heavy product.

EDIT: In case this post came out sounding harsher than intended, I just want to clairify a bit. Without my PDF sales, I wouldn't produce (read as I wouldn't spend my time for such little profit) my books. The PDF sales are part of what drives my desire to put out books, because they make up a healthy chunk of our income and make each project that much more profitable. Without them, the retailers would have no product from us to sell at all, or at least would have less product. So I think that for us at least, the PDF sales benefit everyone involved.

joe b.

I had asked Brad at ACD about this a while back. His response was (and I'm paraphrasing mercilessly here) more or less to the effect that although many retailers complained loudly, he couldn't see where it actually had any significant impact on orders.

It might be worth dropping him an email to see if he could elaborate.

madelf said:

I had asked Brad at ACD about this a while back. His response was (and I'm paraphrasing mercilessly here) more or less to the effect that although many retailers complained loudly, he couldn't see where it actually had any significant impact on orders.

It might be worth dropping him an email to see if he could elaborate.

Click to expand...

I will do that. I owe Brad a pre-release copy of Roma anyway.

Thanks,
Bill

jgbrowning said:

Well as rough as this may sound to some retailers, I'm in this business to make money. I understand retailers desires to profit in the channel, but if the difference (between book and book+PDF version) is that a retailer can sell two of my products as opposed to just one product because I sold that one as a PDF, I get more money by selling the PDF.

I don't think my products are nearly popular enough for there to be any real negative impact in print sales to a degree enough to actually hurt retailers. I'm basically a self-publisher who writes very niche books. The retailers are only selling 2 maybe 3 copies of each of my books to begin with. Were I WoTC, the retailers points would be a lot more realistic in expectation, but to small publishers like us, retailers have to remember that it was the PDF that made me the money that puts those books on their shelves to begin with. So, without the PDF, there would be fewer books from me which would be more detrimental to their sales potential than books that are also available as PDF.

But anyway, I honestly don't think there is that much of a cross over between print and PDF purchasers. And if there is, that's a beneficial cross-over for publishers because It means I can make a sale twice. I guess (I have no data) that there are more people who purchase both versions of my book than there are people who only purchase the PDF version who would have purchased the hardcopy version if the PDF version was not available.



Hey thanks! I'd love to look it over as we're still toying with the idea of A Magical Society: Imperium but have put in on the backburner because it's a real research heavy product.

EDIT: In case this post came out sounding harsher than intended, I just want to clairify a bit. Without my PDF sales, I wouldn't produce (read as I wouldn't spend my time for such little profit) my books. The PDF sales are part of what drives my desire to put out books, because they make up a healthy chunk of our income and make each project that much more profitable. Without them, the retailers would have no product from us to sell at all, or at least would have less product. So I think that for us at least, the PDF sales benefit everyone involved.

joe b.

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Joe,
Just to be clear, I am with you. I see it as a means of advertising really. It is a certain segment of the market and it should not be the only way you get the word out but it does touch the online communities.

Thanks,
Bill

madelf said:

I had asked Brad at ACD about this a while back. His response was (and I'm paraphrasing mercilessly here) more or less to the effect that although many retailers complained loudly, he couldn't see where it actually had any significant impact on orders.

It might be worth dropping him an email to see if he could elaborate.

Click to expand...

Yes--keep in mind that a depressing large segment of the retail community are not thinking like businessmen, but rather like gamers....and like many gamers, they demonstrate the behavior that I have printed out and hanging over my desk (as a reminder when dealing with vocal internet criticism):

"Bitch, whine, piss, moan....and BUY ANYWAY."