Taking the prestige out of classes

Frostmarrow

First Post
The other day I found myself thinking: What if I could play any prestige class without meeting the prerequisites? I delved deeply into my tomes in order to find what stands in my way.

I'd have to say: Nothing!

There is nothing that stops me from playing a prestige class as a regular class from level 1. Most PrCs seems balanced enough as they are. For sure there are some rare stuff that don't make sense. E.g. The Arcane Archer can't use it's ability Imbue Arrow since he can't cast spells unless he 'multiclasses' into Wizard (or Sorcerer). But that's a small price to pay if it will make it possible for you and your friends to play assassins and duelists right off the bat.

So I urge you to rid your game of any PrC prereqs (including alignment and deeds) and play what you like. :heh:
 

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Planesdragon

First Post
Frostmarrow said:
The other day I found myself thinking: What if I could play any prestige class without meeting the prerequisites? I delved deeply into my tomes in order to find what stands in my way.
While it wouldn't be too far outside of the concept to have a few PrCs that can be taken at level 1 (the whole "trained from birth" thing), it's probably a good idea to keep them limited--and none of hte published PrCs were meant to be taken at 1st level, so they will be unbalancing.

From a strict rules-perspective, you can't take anything you don't meet the prereqs. for, and PrCs all have prereqs.
 


Frostmarrow

First Post
BiggusGeekus said:
Well, the Mystic Theurge would become very popular very quickly, that's for sure.

Why? So you get to heal inbetween magic missiles? Not me. :p

Think about it; You get to play an Eldritch Knight (provided you use your bonus feat to learn a single weapon). That would be so cool!
 

BiggusGeekus

That's Latin for "cool"
Frostmarrow said:
Why? So you get to heal inbetween magic missiles? Not me.

Think about it; You get to play an Eldritch Knight (provided you use your bonus feat to learn a single weapon). That would be so cool!

I'll look over the PrCs tonight. I very likely will not be doing this in my game, but what the heck, it's fun to think about.

Incidentally, will you be removing the alignment requirements from the assasin and blackgaurd? Just curious. I know at least one of my players would be delighted if he could bring back his old 1e half-orc assasin character.
 

Frostmarrow

First Post
BiggusGeekus said:
I'll look over the PrCs tonight. I very likely will not be doing this in my game, but what the heck, it's fun to think about.

Incidentally, will you be removing the alignment requirements from the assasin and blackgaurd? Just curious. I know at least one of my players would be delighted if he could bring back his old 1e half-orc assasin character.

I'm not currently DMing at the moment so I won't be removing anything. But as you said, it's fun to think about. Ya, the assassins and blackguards would become open to anyone, if I had anything to say about it. I mean, I take the class assassin and I get a bunch of abilities; death blow and poison resistance among others - then it's up to me as a player to come up with a plausible explanation why my street urchin character have learned such. :cool:
 

fredramsey

First Post
I don't remember where I saw it, but someone came up with the idea of turning the pre-reqs into a series of quests the PC has to complete for some organization to become the PrC.
 

Frostmarrow

First Post
Example:

ARCANE TRICKSTER
Hit Die: d4.
Requirements
To qualify to become an arcane trickster, a character must fulfill all of the following criteria.
Alignment: Any nonlawful. Deleted. Be what you want to be
Skills: Decipher Script 7 ranks, Disable Device 7 ranks, Escape Artist 7 ranks, Knowledge (arcana) 4 ranks. Deleted. Pick up skills as you go. The skill list gives you what you need.
Spells: Ability to cast mage hand and at least one arcane spell of 3rd level or higher. Deleted. Mage hand you'll get at first level. The other requirement is redundant.
Special: Sneak attack +2d6. Deleted. Again something you'll pick up in due time.
Class Skills
The arcane trickster’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Appraise (Int), Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disable Device (Int), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Gather Information (Cha), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge (all skills taken individually) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Open Lock (Dex), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Search (Int), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Speak Language (Int), Spellcraft (Int), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex), and Use Rope (Dex).
Skill Points at Each Level: 4 + Int modifier.

Table: The Arcane Trickster
Level BaseAttackBonus FortSave RefSave WillSave Special Spells per Day
1st +0 +0 +2 +2 Ranged legerdemain 1/day +1 level of existing class
2nd +1 +0 +3 +3 Sneak attack +1d6 +1 level of existing class
3rd +1 +1 +3 +3 Impromptu sneak attack 1/day +1 level of existing class
4th +2 +1 +4 +4 Sneak attack +2d6 +1 level of existing class
5th +2 +1 +4 +4 Ranged legerdemain 2/day +1 level of existing class
6th +3 +2 +5 +5 Sneak attack +3d6 +1 level of existing class
7th +3 +2 +5 +5 Impromptu sneak attack 2/day +1 level of existing class
8th +4 +2 +6 +6 Sneak attack +4d6 +1 level of existing class
9th +4 +3 +6 +6 Ranged legerdemain 3/day +1 level of existing class
10th +5 +3 +7 +7 Sneak attack +5d6 +1 level of existing class

Class Features
All of the following are Class Features of the arcane trickster prestige class.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Arcane tricksters gain no proficiency with any weapon or armor.
Spells per Day: When a new arcane trickster level is gained, the character gains new spells per day as if he had also gained a level in a spellcasting class he belonged to before adding the prestige class. Pick Wizard or Sorcerer progress at character creation. He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained, except for an increased effective level of spellcasting. If a character had more than one spellcasting class before becoming an arcane trickster, he must decide to which class he adds the new level for purposes of determining spells per day.
Ranged Legerdemain: An arcane trickster can perform one of the following class skills at a range of 30 feet: Disable Device, Open Lock, or Sleight of Hand. Working at a distance increases the normal skill check DC by 5, and an arcane trickster cannot take 10 on this check. Any object to be manipulated must weigh 5 pounds or less.
An arcane trickster can use ranged legerdemain once per day initially, twice per day upon attaining 5th level, and three times per day at 9th level or higher. He can make only one ranged legerdemain skill check each day, and only if he has at least 1 rank in the skill being used.
Sneak Attack: This is exactly like the rogue ability of the same name. The extra damage dealt increases by +1d6 every other level (2nd, 4th, 6th, 8th, and 10th). If an arcane trickster gets a sneak attack bonus from another source the bonuses on damage stack.
Impromptu Sneak Attack: Beginning at 3rd level, once per day an arcane trickster can declare one melee or ranged attack he makes to be a sneak attack (the target can be no more than 30 feet distant if the impromptu sneak attack is a ranged attack). The target of an impromptu sneak attack loses any Dexterity bonus to AC, but only against that attack. The power can be used against any target, but creatures that are not subject to critical hits take no extra damage (though they still lose any Dexterity bonus to AC against the attack).
At 7th level, an arcane trickster can use this ability twice per day.

You'll be the coolest rogue on the block with this "progression chart". So, what if you suck compared to a real rogue. At least you haven't played this one before (at 1st level, at least). ;)
 

MDSnowman

First Post
Arcana Unearthed Addresses this to some degree...

They bring up the valid pioint that when the Order of the Bow is looking for a new initatiate they're not going to choose a 5th level ranger with a dex of 13 over a 3rd level ranger with a dex of 20.

It recomends, that for PCs anyway, in lieu of many of the normal requirements you can qualify for a class by undertaking a test, or other role playing requirements. Like a prospective Blackguard must visit a specific abandonded prison who's only resident is a bearded Devil and best him in single combat.

In cases like these I would only require skills and feats that the prestige class builds off of specifically. Like a prestige class built on brewing potion better have brew potions before they past their trial to get into the class.
 

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