Merging Skills

Before I explain the idea, I should say that this depends a lot on the type of campaign you run; it won't be great for everyone.

That said, in the last four games I've played in (2 D&D, 1 AU, 1 Spycraft), certain skills get used far more than other skills. Diplomacy, Bluff, Tumble (especially tumble!), Spot, Listen, Search, Hide, and Move Silently all get used a lot.

Other skills get used rarely if ever. Nobody has EVER had to make a life-or-death swim check; jump checks are usually unnecessary, given the alternatives; climbing is usually outclassed by flying; Balance checks are very rare.

Yet these are the skills that fighters get. So PCs with fighters just shrug, take a couple points in jump, and figure taht they're focused on using feats anyway.

What I'm thinking is that I might combine Balance, Jump, Climb, and Swim into one skill called "Athletics," linked to Str or Dex depending on the skill's use. This frees up fighter-types to put a skill point or two into something like a craft, or even a cross-class skill.

Has anyone done this? Are there any obvious problems with this idea?
Daniel

My own house rules leave Jump, Climb, and Swim alone, though combining them is an interesting idea.

I fold Balance into Tumble.

I fold Open Lock into Disable Device. (I think of this combined skill as 'Tinker(Int)').

I eliminate Forgery and Decipher Script and make them both applications of the appropriate Knowledge skill (to forge an official document, for example, use Knowledge(civics)).

I eliminate Appraise and make it an application of any appropriate skill, including treating attack bonus as a skill for this purpose (to appraise a longsword, for example, use your base attack bonus as if it were ranks in the skill, and apply your Int modifier).

I eliminate Use Rope and make it an application of any appropriate skill, such as Escape Artist (if you want to tie someone up, which is far and away the most common way Use Rope is used).

I divide Craft, Knowledge, and Profession each into about 10 very specific subcategories, which are the only subcategories permitted.

Finally, I scrap the existing system of synergy bonuses and use a much more flexible system, the basic rule of which is: Any time you use a skill, your ability in one (and only one) relevant other skill may provide a synergy bonus. The amount of the bonus is equal to your ranks in the other skill divided by 3. The DM decides on a case-by-case basis whether the other skill is relevant to the particular task at hand. If the DM decides that more than one other skill is relevant, the player chooses which one to use for synergy. (For example, if you are making a Jump check to reduce your damage from falling, I will probably give you a synergy bonus equal to 1/3 your ranks in Tumble. If, however, you are falling into water, I will probably give you a synergy bonus equal to 1/3 your ranks in Swim instead. If I'm in a generous mood I might let you choose between Tumble or Swim for synergy.)

Pielorinho said:

What I'm thinking is that I might combine Balance, Jump, Climb, and Swim into one skill called "Athletics," linked to Str or Dex depending on the skill's use. This frees up fighter-types to put a skill point or two into something like a craft, or even a cross-class skill.

Has anyone done this? Are there any obvious problems with this idea?
Daniel

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I would use athletics as strength-based skills (climb, jump, swim) and put balance in with tumble. Slightly easier to track.

The main reason I haven't done it is because one would need to re-write the combined skill. You'd need to have DCs for the various uses of the skill, and you'd have to simplify it. Just the rules for Jump go on forever, and *those* are simplified from 3.0. I'm not sure how best to go about such a simplification, though, so I've just given this one a miss.

DanMcS, I thought of lumping Balance in with Tumble; ironically, it's because of Balance that I didn't (I slay me!)

That is, Tumble is already the single most-used skill in our games--with the possible exception of Search--and I'm not sure i want to make it even more useful.

OTOH, Balance checks are so rare that this might not be a major issue.

Cyberzombie, I'm not sure how this would complicate things: just use the existing DCs from the other skills. If this is a problem, then instead you could institute the rule that a single skill rank in any of these skills also awarded a skill rank in any of the others.

Elrobey, those are some very interesting ideas!
Daniel

Pielorinho said:

Cyberzombie, I'm not sure how this would complicate things: just use the existing DCs from the other skills. If this is a problem, then instead you could institute the rule that a single skill rank in any of these skills also awarded a skill rank in any of the others.

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Okay, for *me* it would complicate things, because I would have a complete write-up of the new skill if I was going to use such a house rule. I wouldn't want a skill that stretched for several pages, explaining all the DCs, so I'd have to simplify things to make them shorter. If you're not as obsessive about write-ups, it wouldn't be such a problem.

Fantasy Flight Games's Mechamorphosis (a.k.a. "Transformers D20") rolled several sets of 3 skills into 1.

• Balance, Escape Artist and Tumble were all rolled into Acrobatics.
• Climb, Jump, and Swim are all rolled into Athletics.
• Disable Device, Open Lock, and Use Rope were all rolled into Build/Repair [Simple].
• Bluff, Diplomacy, Intimidate, Perform, and Sense Motive were all rolled into the skill Interaction.
• Craft and Profession were rolled into the Programming skill.
• Listen, Search and Spot were all rolled into the Senses skill.
• Hide, Move Silently, and Sleight of Hand were all rolled into the Stealth skill.

These are some of my own ideas. Most of them are rooted in the initial topic, but some diverge. I'd rather start a different thread to discuss the divergent aspects rather than hijack this one.

0. Introduce a scale that determines what level of expertise skill ranks represent. In my own games, I'm using: Untraned (0 ranks), Novice (1-5 ranks), Seasoned (5-10 ranks), Expert (11-15 ranks), Master (16-20 ranks), Legend (21+ ranks). DMs may have additional requirements for PCs wishing to achieve the Master and Legend levels.
1. Combine Bluff and Diplomancy into Persuade.
2. Intimidate gets its own skill, seeing as how a silver-tongued merchant is decidedly different from a merciless thug.
3. Listen, Search, Sense Motive, and Spot would be Perceive or something similar.
4. Climb, Jump, and Swim become Athletics.
5. Hide, and Move Silently become Stealth.
6. Language skills work like every other skill. For your native language, you get an automatic 10 ranks. For your bonus languages at character creation, you get 6 ranks for free. You'll have to spend skill points for everything else, just like other skills.
7. Perform would still be several skills under one umbrella, but I'd have the following skill sets: Musical Instrument (drum, flute, guitar, trumpet, voice, etc.), Dance (ballet, court, folk etc.), Acting (comedy, mime, tragedy, etc).
7a. You would start off knowing only one specialty of each Perform skill you take, but with every 4 ranks, you gain access to another specialty. So, when you first take Perform: Musical Instrument, you start off knowing how to play only one instrument. When you get 4 ranks, you can pick up another. A character with 14 ranks in Perform: Dance can know 3 forms of dance. Of course, nothing is keeping you from sticking with just one thing.
7b. I may give a little bonus to the bard to account for specialization within these skills, such that a bard who concentrates on singing gets a bonus. Maybe something like favored instrument (Music), favored dance (Dance), or favored method (Acting). It could work like the ranger's favored enemy, where you get bonus that increases by level that you can put anywhere you like. But I digress.
8. Disable Device, Forgery, and Open Lock would be Craft skills. Forgery would be Craft (Forgery) or maybe even Craft (Document; which can also cover making quality maps and such). Disable Device and Open Lock would be Craft (mechanical), which covers the construction and destruction of mechanical items, with varying DCs based upon the complexity of such objects and the character's intents. Using Craft (mechanical) to disable things is often easier than using it to make it.
8a. I'm thinking about doing Craft like I outlined Perform above, but unlike Perform, it makes sense for some Craft skills more than others. For Armorsmith and Weaponsmith, it can work, but for Blacksmith it can be awkward to start off only knowing how to shoe horses. Then again, I could make Armorsmith and Weaponsmith as subsets of Blacksmith. But it'd likely be more trouble than it's worth.
9. Synergy bonuses would be based upon actual ranks in the skill, not a flat bonus. I'd say a +1 bonus for every 4 full ranks you possess in the synergy skill works well. So, a character trying to use Survival who also has 15 ranks in, say, Knowledge (nature) can get a +3 synergy bonus to Survival checks. It's initially less potent than the current synergy bonus rules, but it can become more powerful later on.

There is one risk of folding lots of skills into each other.

The rogue.

He'll all of a sudden be able to have every interesting skill maxed out. In fact, it will be so easy for him to do this, Intelligence will become a dump stat for the rogue character. All the rogues will be alike, having only very minor variations: some will choose to learn Giant, while others will take Knowledge (pie-making).

The fighters IMC have seen tremendous use of their Balance, Climb, Jump, and Swim checks! Though we generally play a swashbuckling sea-going campaign. I think it really depends on what sort of game-style you play. For example a fighter standing atop his saddle as his horse charges an enemy giant, is followed by a leap atop the giant in a flying tackle. Balance, Jump, and Ride would all be used to great effect. I've seen similar uses on the high seas and, recently, on land as the campaign has recetly shifted to. IMC I've had PCs make life-or-death swim checks as well as jump checks. So I think it really depends on the style of play. No need to go about consolidating some of these skills IMHO.

Green Slime makes a very good point about the skilled-classe such as the rogue (and the ranger I'd imagine as well).