The Common Commoner

Goblyns Hoard · Aug 12, 2004

Kamikaze Midget said:
Well, yeah, he is holding back...in the same way that just because the local commoner COULD ...

Kamikaze Midget said:

Then he isn't a cleric serving the community... and any cleric that isn't serving the community will soon be made unwelcome!

Any cleric that serves his divine lord, which he knows exists, is not going to be same as Joe Commoner... his god gives him those spells to carry out his god's wishes... not just so he can take it easy when he feels like it, and carry out his own agenda. Arcane magic maybe - divine magic NO.

If you were my cleric on this world and I saw you taking it easy when one of my worshippers needed MY assistance... well you'd hear about it! That power isn't yours, it's mine, and you wield it on that world for ME, cause I gave it to you. Damn straight on your 'day off' you're still going to use the special abilities I give you to further my cause, so whether I'm a god of healing, protection, sun, whatever it doesn't matter... my worshipper who seeks my aid has come to you... you get to do my bidding or you ain't getting nothing from me!

Granted any god of tyranny, death, disease, destruction, pain, suffering etc. is going to be a different kettle of fish, but how would a cleric of that deity make it in a tiny community like your hamlet... they just wouldn't be there (if only because there's more power elsewhere).

Of course he's going to hold back his healing for the truly needy and those that also help the community... but as he can only cast 2 spells per day, what happens if none of the guards have a sword stuck in them come sun-down... he's going to use those spells on whoever needs them. Somedays that will be nobody, and I wasn't suggesting that he was going to cure every stubbed toe, or replace haling and herbalism skills, just that he isn't going to waste his spell and not cast it if he's not got anything better to cast it on. But most people will suffer from an unpleasant disease, or serious injury at some point in their lives, so most people will have the benefit of magic at some point.

Kamikaze Midget said:

Basically, casting spells costs effort, and if he doesn't see a need, he won't make the effort.

Kamikaze Midget said:

What effort is involved in casting a spell? CLW is a standard action, takes no real time at all. The cleric doesn't lose anything for it other than the slot, and gains the gratitude of the commoner to his deity. OK if there's a more important thing to do with that slot (bless the holy water, re-consecrate the chapel, whatever) then is he just going to let it go at the end of the day - what a waste would that be.

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Bigwilly · Aug 12, 2004

Kings of the world

In my homebrew campaign, there are only two major cities in the region where the campaign is set.These are the only places where the PCs can offload loot and buy magic stuff. Even then, the city that they actually live in doesn't always have the stuff they want. Outside of these cities, it's peasantville with each village having a few low level PC classes and the odd higher level NPC.

Now that most of the PCs are 12th level, they are beginning to realise that they outclass pretty much everyone around them. Of course inhabitants of the region also realise this and now come to the PCs whenever there is a threat to deal with.

Bigwilly, NSEDM

Belen · Aug 12, 2004

This thread is amazing. Kudos, KM.

Belen · Aug 12, 2004

Goblyns Hoard said:
What effort is involved in casting a spell? CLW is a standard action, takes no real time at all. The cleric doesn't lose anything for it other than the slot, and gains the gratitude of the commoner to his deity. OK if there's a more important thing to do with that slot (bless the holy water, re-consecrate the chapel, whatever) then is he just going to let it go at the end of the day - what a waste would that be.

Dude, channeling divine energy is exhausting! Otherwise, the god would grant the person an infinite number of spells. And you are discounting the fact that a cleric will have other things to do durning the day than heal. She will have to prepare sermons, hear confessions, travel to outlying farms, teach, create scrolls or potions to help in times of need, study, pray etc.

A cleric will not have time to heal just anyone with a broken arm nor will he have money to make those potions etc without charging for non-life threatening spells.

Quasqueton · Aug 12, 2004

Re: cleric healing the masses.

I would think the cleric (assuming he is a good guy, serving/protecting the village) would reserve his spells for times when really needed. I could see even a cleric of healing refusing to cure someone of an injury that is not life-threatening, and will heal on its own.

"Sure, that's going to leave a nasty scar, and I could fix it right up in a few seconds, but. . .

what if armed strangers come into town later today - I need my detect evil available.

what if the gnolls attack and our militia gets roughed up - I need my cures to get our warriors back on their feet."

With all the nocturnal monsters in the world, the cleric would even be wise to not blow his unused spells at night fall.

Quasqueton

Piratecat · Aug 12, 2004

Goblyns Hoard said:
Then he isn't a cleric serving the community... and any cleric that isn't serving the community will soon be made unwelcome!

If you were my cleric on this world and I saw you taking it easy when one of my worshippers needed MY assistance... well you'd hear about it!

Well, I'd argue that very few cleric PCs end their day, every day, with no spells left because they've cast them all on villagers or cityfolk. It's a little tricky to mandate that every day. I suspect that like most English pastors, a small town cleric would make the rounds to everyone's house over the course of a week to check up on his flock. A city cleric would let people come to them.

This brings up the fascinating power of the church (and multiple churches) in a commoner's life. The church would weild phenomenal power. Think about it: not only can they damn your soul to hell, but if you have an argument with the cleric then your daughter might die while giving birth, just because the church has excluded you and a cleric isn't attending. No one wants to take the risk that their family will die of disease, so they'd be at church every time.

And in a town with two churches? I can definitely see "us vs them" social problems, and lots of intrigue when someone changes churches or marries a person from the other religion.

mmadsen · Aug 12, 2004

Quasqueton said:
I would think the cleric (assuming he is a good guy, serving/protecting the village) would reserve his spells for times when really needed.

But spells per day aren't magical capital that you can save up; they're magical bandwidth you use or lose. At dusk, or before going to bed, you use up your last few spells healing someone or creating water -- creating capital you can use later.

diaglo · Aug 12, 2004

Piratecat said:
And in a town with two churches? I can definitely see "us vs them" social problems, and lots of intrigue when someone changes churches or marries a person from the other religion.

reread the 1979 module T1 Village of Hommlet.

I'm A Banana · Aug 12, 2004

Then he isn't a cleric serving the community... and any cleric that isn't serving the community will soon be made unwelcome!

Any cleric that serves his divine lord, which he knows exists, is not going to be same as Joe Commoner... his god gives him those spells to carry out his god's wishes... not just so he can take it easy when he feels like it, and carry out his own agenda. Arcane magic maybe - divine magic NO.

A god certainly doesn't wish people to become dependant on one man, ne? He's serving the community, but nothing says he needs to spiritually drain himself nightly just to serve the community...it's a "feed a man a fish/teach a man to fish" kind of scenario. Yes, I could heal you right now. But then you wouldn't learn your lesson ("do not play with Alchemist's fire!"), or you wouldn't learn how to heal yourself ("I may not be around forever"), or you would come to me every time you needed it, when others may deserve it more.

If you were my cleric on this world and I saw you taking it easy when one of my worshippers needed MY assistance... well you'd hear about it! That power isn't yours, it's mine, and you wield it on that world for ME, cause I gave it to you. Damn straight on your 'day off' you're still going to use the special abilities I give you to further my cause, so whether I'm a god of healing, protection, sun, whatever it doesn't matter... my worshipper who seeks my aid has come to you... you get to do my bidding or you ain't getting nothing from me!

It takes effort to get spells...these aren't free gifts from the gods, these are the reward for a pious supplication. On his "day off", he simply doesn't spend the effort to prepare his spells. Most priests perform mass only once a week, after all.

Granted any god of tyranny, death, disease, destruction, pain, suffering etc. is going to be a different kettle of fish, but how would a cleric of that deity make it in a tiny community like your hamlet... they just wouldn't be there (if only because there's more power elsewhere).

There's a fair chance that the leaders of the community are Evil. If they are, and they have enough friends, you're in a situation where a god of wickedness could rule your daily activities, and you supplicate out of fear, not out of hope. If you DON'T, you die. If you DO, you live. Even if they're not evil, every village has it's witches, it's outcasts, it's wierd mad scientists...if you've only got a cleric or three, it's not hard to imagine that those three serve a god that most of the populous is terrified of.

Of course he's going to hold back his healing for the truly needy and those that also help the community... but as he can only cast 2 spells per day, what happens if none of the guards have a sword stuck in them come sun-down... he's going to use those spells on whoever needs them. Somedays that will be nobody, and I wasn't suggesting that he was going to cure every stubbed toe, or replace haling and herbalism skills, just that he isn't going to waste his spell and not cast it if he's not got anything better to cast it on. But most people will suffer from an unpleasant disease, or serious injury at some point in their lives, so most people will have the benefit of magic at some point.

True, most people will at some point...those two spells are for emergencies like that.

But I'd say it's probably much more efficient and exhausting to heal the militia than it is to bother usually with the commoners...which is why a lot of commoners, at some point, join the militia and gain some XP. It's got a health plan, after all.

When your neighbors are getting attacked twice a day, your healing spells will probably go for them, not for the clumbsy farmer who walked off the cliff following his flock of lemmings.

So magic can help against emergencies, but 'survival of the fittest' still applies; but some extremes of chance are reduced. And clerics are people, too.

But spells per day aren't magical capital that you can save up; they're magical bandwidth you use or lose. At dusk, or before going to bed, you use up your last few spells healing someone or creating water -- creating capital you can use later.

Most nights, at dusk, you either heal those who are near death from the nearest goblin attack, or you preside over their funeral and cast bless on the corpse (no need for goblins AND undead...).

You create holy water. You perform a ritual to grant your brother luck (guidance, bless, aid, etc.). You maybe write a scroll if you have enough gold (that's why you're charging for the spell for most folks in the first place, after all.

). You don't bother touching the wierd stranger on the corner who stinks of alcohol....at least, most of the time. You instead set up a charity for them, while helping your Sunday Night poker game with a guidance.

Clerics are people, too...there are so many things you could do with those powers, many of them still in your god's interest (if I'm richer after poker, I can make more scrolls!; If my brother has luck in the harvest, the town will be better fed!), without having to have everyone go frolick with lepers before bedtime.

Though I'm sure frolicking with lepers happens before bedtime, too...but on special holidays, or when he's feeling very generous, or when his god's been being reticent about that healing magic recently....I don't imagine in most towns ever really having the problem with "Well, I've got this cure light I haven't used yet today..." Especially not with two attacks each day from monsters, and only two 1d8+2's to go around.

Quasqueton · Aug 12, 2004

But spells per day aren't magical capital that you can save up; they're magical bandwidth you use or lose. At dusk, or before going to bed, you use up your last few spells healing someone or creating water -- creating capital you can use later.

And what happens when there's a goblin raid in the night -- oops, I used my spells to heal the simple accident victims at sundown. The wounded militiamen are screwed now.

Danger doesn't just happen in the daylight hours. There are plenty of threats that can come at night.

How many times have PCs been caught spelled-out at night because the cleric burned all his cure spells before laying down to sleep in the wilderness?

Quasqueton