I've got the core rules. What to buy next?

Doug McCrae

Legend
I've got the DnD 3.5 core rulebooks - PHB, DMG, MM. After that what are the best or most useful products for DnD?

I was thinking of getting Eberron, maybe Beyond Countless Doorways cause I'm into extraplanar stuff (don't like the Planescape setting though).
 

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argo

First Post
It depends on what you need and how much work you are willing to do on your own.

Just want to do as little prep as possible and are happy with "generic" DnD? Buy modules.

Want somebody to map out your kingdoms, power goups, mythology and sketch a metaplot for you? Get a campaign setting.

Intend to homebrew and just need ideas to spark your imagination and give you a little help? Monster books, city books and maybe a variant rulebook like UA should help.

Want to use d20 as a modular ruleset to play any game under the sun? There are a lot of great genre books that move you away from stock DnD high fantasy.

Maybe a giving a few more details on what you are looking for would help.
 


Doug McCrae

Legend
argo said:
Maybe a giving a few more details on what you are looking for would help.
I want to get an idea of which products are generally perceived to be the best/most useful - campaign settings, modules, monster books, everything.
 

MoogleEmpMog

First Post
Campaign settings only, here.

I'm leaving off 'variant core books' like Arcana Unearthed, Conan the RPG, Midnight and d20 Modern/Future/Urban Arcana, because someone new to 3.5 D&D probably wants to, y'know, try out 3.5 D&D. ;)

WotC's Eberron and Privateer Press's Iron Kingdoms are the shiny new kids on the block here, and there's something to be said for benefiting from the experience of settings past - or just doing a dashed good job of making new ones. Go for Eberron if you want something closer to core D&D, IK if you want a grimmer, grittier feel. Both are very good.

WotC's Oriental Adventures and Alderac Entertainment Group's Rokugan provide some solid rules and setting information that you can use to run a variety of medieval Japan-themed campaigns. OA isn't really a campaign setting, but Rokugan is, the same one as the multitude of other Legend of the Five Rings games.

For more traditional fantasy, Sovereign Press's Dragonlance and WotC's Forgotten Realms each offer a classic feel. I prefer DL to FR, but that's at least partly due to nostalgia.

Personally, if just starting out with 3.5 D&D (or D&D in general), I would buy Eberron. It's new, it's designed specifically for 3.5, and it's quite good.

Eberron products: Eberron Campaign Setting, Shadows of the Last War (adventure), Monster Manual III (monster book)

Iron Kingdoms products: Iron Kingdoms Character Guide, Monsternomicon (monster book), Lock and Load character primer (arguably no longer needed), Witchfire Trilogy (adventures)

Rokugan products: Oriental Adventures (core book), Rokugan (campaign guide), Way of the Samurai/Shugenja/Ninja series (splatbooks), Magic of Rokguan (book 'o spells), Monsters of Rokugan (... yeah, a monster book)

Dragonlance products: Dragonlance Campaign Setting, Age of Mortals (campaign guide), Bestiary of Krynn (monster book), ??? (adventure - I don't recall the name)

Forgotten Realms products: Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting, Player's Guide to Faerun, Monsters of Faerun, Monster Manual 3, others too numerous to mention...
 

Hi Doug,

You can buy campaign stuff - like Forgotten Realms, Kalamar, Eberron etc. - or you can homebrew your own. Take a favourite book or series - such as Vance's Lyonesse Series, Feist's Magician, George R.R. Martin's Fire and Ice etc. - and use elements of these to create your own little fantasy world.
Populate the place with interesting NPC's and you can save a lot of expense.

Getting a module to see how the experts plan it out - Forge of Fury always seemed nicely laid out to me - can assist in this process.

However, if you want to expand your game I would use the following (which are also the common books we use in our group):

Book of Exalted Deeds
Book of Vile Darkness (DM Only)
Complete Warrior
Complete Divine
Stronghold Builder's Guide
and soon to be Races of Stone.

Note as well that we still refer to Tome and Blood, Song and Silence (3.0 books) until their 3.5 partners (Complete Arcane, Complete Adventurer) come out. We also use The Manual of the Planes but have not updated to the new Players version yet.

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise
 

jester47

First Post
Doug McCrae said:
I've got the DnD 3.5 core rulebooks - PHB, DMG, MM. After that what are the best or most useful products for DnD?

I was thinking of getting Eberron, maybe Beyond Countless Doorways cause I'm into extraplanar stuff (don't like the Planescape setting though).

I don't know what you should get next, but my advice to you is keep the number of books you own to a backpack's worth. Seriously. This will make sure you use everything. I would suggest an additional monsterbook, and a campaign setting.

Good monster books: Dangerous Desiens, Tome of Horrors 2, and Fiend Folio are pretty good. Oh and the Penumbra fantasy Bestiary. Tome and fiend are probably your best bets for planar stuff.

Kalamar and FR generally require some serious investment. As might (well will) eventually Eberron and Diamond Throne. I would suggest just the first Eberron book, or better yet Dave Arneson's Blackmoor (Blackmoor seems very self contained and is weird enough for someone that likes planar stuff). And neither jumps editions. If you are willing to wait I would heavily recommend The Wilderlands, but thats 12 months out. Get the Manual of the Planes (great for source w/ min erratta/updates) and the Planar Handbook with Countless Doorways.

For extra rules: Unearhted Arcana (WotC), Complete Book of Eldritch Might (Malhavoc) and Grim Tales (Bad Axe).

My list of suggestions for you and your situation:

Fiend Folio
Tome of Horrors 2
Dave Arneson's Blackmoor
Manual of the Planes (Eratta and 3.5 update doc) [Check local used bookstore first]
Planar Handbook (NOTE: This is a good companion to the MoP, it does NOT replace it)
Beyond Countless Doorways

At that point I would stop there, with occasional adventures. Best in the generic biz are necromancer and goodman's dungeon crawl classics. Oh and a subscription to dungeon.

Aaron.
 
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mhacdebhandia

Explorer
I'm not going to be saying anything particularly original, here. Just a heads-up.

Probably the most important decision you'll make is whether or not you're going to run a game in an established setting.

The Forgotten Realms should be familiar to anyone who was around early enough to know they don't like Planescape. The Third Edition line of books have wonderful production values, and are generally considered to be well-written and useful. The core books to get for a revised Third Edition game are the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting and Player's Guide to Faerun hardcover books. You may also find Monsters of Faerun useful; the other books in the line cover gods, villainous organisations, magic, and various regions - Silver Marches, Underdark, and so on.

Eberron is new, so you have the opportunity to get in on a new setting at the very beginning. As others have said, it was specifically designed to include everything found in revised Third Edition - which includes psionics as found in the Expanded Psionics Handbook, though they are mostly confined to Sarlona, a separate continent from the main continent of Khorvaire. The other element of Eberron worth mentioning is that it tries to blend the prevalence of magic in D&D with a kind of pulp-adventure aesthetic; Khorvaire has just emerged from a century-long war a la World War One, and to a large extent the society has the tone (if not the technology) of 1920s and 1930s pulp and noir fiction. The setting's being supported with a line of connected adventures - there's a short introductory adventure in the back of the Eberron Campaign Setting hardback, which can lead into Whispers of the Vampire's Blade, Shadows of the Last War and Grasp of the Emerald Claw. Races of Eberron is due out soon, and Monster Manual III includes information on how to fit many of its creatures into the setting, as well as the Forgotten Realms.

Those are the two settings currently supported by Wizards of the Coast; Greyhawk is pretty much confined to the RPGA Living Greyhawk campaign, which causes much wailing and gnashing of teeth from Greyhawk fans.

If you're interested in planar adventures, the two books you're looking for from Wizards are the Manual of the Planes and the Planar Handbook. The former is aimed at DMs (and much of its pre-revision information is included in the planar section of the Dungeon Master's Guide), the latter at players. The latter also contains quite a bit of Planescape-derived material, though without the flavour of the setting, so it may not irritate you too much. Look over it in a store if you can to see if you find it useful.

There is a series of slim hardcover sourcebooks - Complete Warrior, Complete Divine, Complete Arcane. and Complete Adventurer, of which only the first two have so far been released - which aim to expand player choices along a number of obvious themes, as opposed to offering options for specific classes as the pre-revision "splatbooks" did; however, most people find Complete Divine useful only for clerics, paladins, and druids, as opposed to Complete Warrior which had material for all classes (though obviously more for fighter-types than, say, wizards). Complete Adventurer seems like it will mostly be a catch-all skill-focused product most useful for rogues and the like. Each book presents three new 20-level base classes. Fair warning: if you don't want new feats and prestige classes, and a lot of them, you might not have much use for the Complete X series.

Likewise, there is a series of products - Races of Stone, Races of the Wild, and Races of Destiny - which provide more detail on the various standard races - dwarves and gnomes in Races of Stone, elves and halflings in Races of the Wild, and humans, half-elves, and half-orcs in Races of Destiny. Each book also presents a new race - goliaths in Races of Stone, illumians in Races of Destiny, and an as-yet-unidentified race in Races of the Wild. Like the Complete X series, there's apparently quite a lot of feats, spells, and prestige classes in these books, but mixed in with what sounds like a decent dose of cultural information, too. There may be more products to come further on, as well; it's unclear as to how big the line is intended to be.

The Book of Vile Darkness is a pre-revision but usable product covering "vile" paragons of Evil - theoretically, the darkest, most mature kinds of villains, including fiend-worshippers and the like. The Book of Exalted Deeds is its post-revision counterpart, covering the champions of Good. Balance questions surround both these products, and the particular take on the material will not be to everyone's tastes, but I for one am happy to own them.

Now for the single-shot books . . .

The Miniatures Handbook is a strange book, half of which is filled with base and prestige classes, feats, spells, and monsters usable in a normal D&D game, the other half of which contains a skirmish game system intended for use with the randomised, plastic, pre-painted collectible D&D Miniatures line.

The Epic Level Handbook is a pre-revision sourcebook on playing characters past 20th level, and is not generally regarded as a well-balanced and playtested book. Most people agree the monsters are useful but scorn the epic-level spell seed system in particular. It's a pre-revision product, and some of its elements can be found in the epic section of the Dungeon Master's Guide. It's also something which is supported to a pretty fair extent in the post-revision range - the Complete X series and the Expanded Psionics Handbook contain epic-level sections.

Speak of the Devil, the Expanded Psionics Handbook, despite the name, is a standalone product for running psionics in revised Third Edition. By all accounts, despite some editing issues, the psionics system contained therein is the best implementation of psionics to be found in the whole history of D&D, and the author (Bruce Cordell) has also written what most consider to be the best third-party d20 sourcebooks for psionics. The Expanded Psionics Handbook rules are seeing a bit of support in the Races of X range, too, which is nice, as well as in Eberron.

Unearthed Arcana is a product containing variant rule systems. Alongside small changes like variant takes on the classes and additions to the system like Sanity (derived from d20 Call of Cthulhu), it contains more radical subsystems like spell points. Basically, it's a compilation of often mutually-exclusive ways in which you can do things differently. It's worth picking up if you're an inveterate rules-tweaker, or if more than one or two things about standard D&D grate on you, or if (like me) you're just crazy for new options. ;)

Oriental Adventures is, as the name suggests, much like its previous editions' counterparts in that it helps you run a game based on Asian and other "oriental" legends and ideas. The default setting in that book is the Legend of the Five Rings RPG and CCG setting, Rokugan, which has its own series of d20 sourcebooks published by AEG, starting with the Rokugan Campaign Setting hardcover and continuing for about twenty volumes by now. Oriental Adventures (and, incidentally, the entire AEG Rokugan line) is a pre-revision product, but Dragon Magazine #318 has an article containing updates to bring it in line with the revision.

Ghostwalk is a campaign mini-setting, detailing a city and surrounds where death works differently, and the dead can manifest as non-undead ghosts and adventure alongside their friends until they can be raised or until they pass on to the next world. It's intended to work either as its own setting or as something you can drop into your own world. It's a pre-revision product, but there's a downloadable PDF update document on the Wizards of the Coast website.

I can also recommend a few d20 sourcebooks.

Monte Cook's Arcana Unearthed, from his Malhavoc Press company (and not to be confused with Unearthed Arcana), is a "variant player's handbook". Basically, it's a different way to do D&D - it has its own races, its own base classes, its own magic system which makes no distinction between divine and arcane magic, and its own "implied setting" with its own assumptions which affect the system in the same way the assumptions of the pseudo-Greyhawk setting of core D&D affect that system. Even if you're happy with how D&D works, it's worth picking up for ideas.

Similarly, the Complete Book of Eldritch Might from the same company is worth getting. Apart from a truckload of spells, it contains variant sorcerer and bard classes, prestige classes, magical sites, feats, and so on. It's basically a treasure-trove of arcane magical stuff, compiling the three Books of Eldritch Might Malhavoc had previously published and updating them to be compatible with revised Third Edition. It also has an appendix for converting everything, especially the spells, to Arcana Unearthed.

The Book of Hallowed Might and the Book of Hallowed Might II are, obviously, divine magical sourcebooks, and the forthcoming Book of Iron Might is a warrior-focused sourcebook. Monte Cook was one of the original designers of Third Edition before founding his own company, so he's in a relatively unique position when it comes to compatibility with standard D&D (though he tends to have a different design philosophy, especially compared to revised Third Edition in which he played no part, which is especially obvious in Arcana Unearthed; I hasten to add, however, that what he does publish is perfectly compatible with the revision) compared to other d20 publishers, having been there on the ground floor as it were.

If you like a more traditional approach to the planes than Planescape offered, you might be interested in Malhavoc' Anger of Angels, which attempts to represent Judaeo-Christian angelology in a D&D-compatible way. There's also, as you know, Beyond Countless Doorways, which isn't Planescape but was designed by the Second Edition Planescape crew, so it may still have an approach you don't appreciate. However, it does lack Sigil, the cant, et cetera, so if that's what bothered you about Planescape it may be perfectly suitable.
 

Pants

First Post
I'd highly recommend Eberron. It's a great setting to play (or run) a game in, chock full of interesting locales, cool villains, and pulp style adventure. I love it. Plus (and this is especially important for someone new to the game), there's no backlog of products from previous editions so everything has a fairly clean slate.

If Eberron doesn't catch your fancy, then Forgotten Realms probably will. IMO, Eberron is the better gameworld, but FR has the better sourcebook. The book is wonderful and while I'm not too keen on some aspects of the Realms, the book makes me want to play (or run) it. And that is a good thing.

Manual of the Planes is quite tricky. It contains a lot of information from Planescape, but it presents it without the PS feel. It is actually pretty neutral in tone, but it is still an excellent book for adventure ideas.

Aside from those, my personal advice is just to stick with the Core books for a while. Those can provide you with endless amounts of entertainment.
 

Steel_Wind

Legend
The most practical advice - and I am surprised no one had mentioned it - is a subscription to Dungeon Magazine.

Some back issues of same at your FLGS are a good investment too - and pretty cheap overall. In terms of value for your $$ - nothing beats Dungeon.

Most extablished settings wil cost you a pretty penny, be it FR, DragonLance, Kalamar or even something non-WotC licensed like Sovereign Stone or Iron Kingdoms. Blackmoor is new and also looks good.

If you are a more traditional High Fantasy fan, I would avoid Eberron. I despise it. Others like it. I think it comes down to traditional feel vs. "out there". Eberron is "out there". Not my cuppa.

If you are inclined to roll your own setting, Dungeon Mag - again - is the best deal available to help you flesh it out with some adventures at the best price.

In terms of WotC books, I'd recommend the Monster Manual II, Fiend Folio, Monsters of Faerun and - I suppose - Monster Manual III (though I have not got that one yet).

Can never have too many monster books!

Lastly - also something which has not been mentioned: E-tools. The words "amazingly useful" fail to capture the coolness of this product to me. If you are the type who prepares for his game sessions, you'll love it. If you are the type who is very much a seat of his pants DM - you'll get a lot less out of it.
 
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