"Epic" progression after 6th level

S'mon · Sep 1, 2004

rycanada said:
Why would you want to remove the skill caps? My thoughts for keeping them circle around the power of available feats, and the availability of feats such as skill focus and +2/+2s for the truly dedicated. Why wouldn't these be sufficient?

Well, a max ranks of 9 is only 5 higher than a 1st level PC, or a 25% difference on a d20. That seems far too low to me to distinguish between a talented novice & 'best of the best'. I suppose you could allow skill focus to be taken multiple times & stack? But my inclination if I capped skill ranks would be to allow at least a 100% difference between no-skill & max-skill characters, which would translate to a skill ranks cap of +20 on a d20. My experience has been that compared to skill-based systems like Runequest/BRP, D&D offers far too little variation in skill effectiveness at low levels, with the randomness of the dice overwhelming the skill ranks.

John Q. Mayhem · Feb 9, 2007

6-level only house rule?

There was a thread here a while back about running D&D with the classes going up only to level 6, and letting people buy feats and such with xp after that. Can anyone direct me to it? I'd really appreciate it. Thanks!

John Q. Mayhem · Feb 10, 2007

Yay, I found it!

Ry · Feb 10, 2007

Hey Mayhem, that was me!

FYI, it works great, although the restriction on wizards and learning new spells isn't really necessary. I'd recommend opening up to other base classes (esp. the warlock as an alternative to the Sorcerer), provided you have given them a read-through.

igavskoga · Feb 10, 2007

Would you mind posting a link to that thread? I'd be interested in checking out those rules.

Ry · Feb 10, 2007

Link: 'Epic' progression after 6th level

Ry · Feb 10, 2007

Really you can boil it down to this:

1. Character progression from level 1 to level 6 is just as per D&D.

2. Upon attaining 6th level, characters stop normal advancement and enter "epic" advancement, which is an experience buy system. Under the "epic" advancement,

a. To gain a new feat (for which the character qualifies) the character must spend 4500 experience. Note: Characters will never qualify for feats which require more than 9 ranks in a skill or a base attack bonus higher than +6.

b. To raise an ability score, the character must spend 500 * the next target score. Thus, a character with 11 STR must spend 6000 to raise it to 12.

Eolin · Feb 11, 2007

I am stealing and modifying this.

one question: Why 6th and not 7th? Or 5th? Did you choose sixth as that is when everyone has access to 3rd-level spells?

If you have six levels of fighter, can you ever learn spellcasting? If you have six levels of wizard, can you raise your BAB? If you added it, how much XP would this cost?

You have a rule for learning new spells -- does this apply to Wizards as well as Sorcerers? What about clerics and druids? Warlocks?

Ry · Feb 11, 2007

I picked 6th because it's a good level for everyone, what with the extra feat, and there's 3rd level spells, an iterative attack, improve all 3 saves, and such in the mix.

The spell thing just ditch.

Picking up spells / class features / BAB increases I'd just handle with even more feats (probably 2 feats = +1 BAB), but the +6 BAB and 9 skill Rank caps are not to be tinkered with, since that cracks the top and it's what we're trying to avoid.

One danger is low hitpoints: I used the variant from the DMG where you take the average instead of rolling (still max at 1st level).

DreadArchon · Feb 11, 2007

Hey, I like that.

Let's see... I didn't read the actual thread (too long), but as far as a BAB and skills, I'd probably be inclined to allow some feats to stack where they normally wouldn't. For example, a master sniper might take Weapon Focus: Longbow multiple times. He would never have an extra iterative attack from high BAB, but he'd still be able to become a better shot. At the moment I can't think of any other good examples of feats to stack (that don't already), but you get the idea.

Edit: Or multiple Dash feats to simulate Monk speed.